anyone else hate southwest?

Old Aug 18, 2005, 10:23 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by fireworksboy
??? Is that a tweak done for the "poor consultant's" benefit? No.
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 10:36 am
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by fireworksboy

Ya ya ya big deal changing their already messed up program to make a bid deal in the press. Youll still find your blackout dates. As for the 24 months time to earn credits. NWA miles never expire and doesnt matter even if its 12 months. You will be doing a transaction anytime.. US Airways I believe is 3 years already. And any kind of activity counts, partners as well to extend the date of expiration of mileage! so stop making a big deal of southwest. thats what i mean by blinded people. southwest adds something that should have been done a long time ago, and people get so happy and chearful whats wrong with some of you?


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Old Aug 18, 2005, 10:45 am
  #48  
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Originally Posted by curbcrusher
??? Is that a tweak done for the "poor consultant's" benefit? No.
I think fireworksboy's point is that you said, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," In other words, what WN is doing (in general) is working, so don't mess with it.

He's saying, essentially, "It's too late" not to mess with it. i.e. the recently announced significant changes to the RR program.

I found interesting that in that thread, right after Randy's post, you said, "The complexification of WN continues." It would appear that, in general, WN isn't buying into your "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy. Or, that they thought aspects of the RR program were, indeed, broke and saw the need to fix them. (Such as the realization that they're giving a way too many last minute tickets with their "any seat" policy, no doubt leaving considerable money on the table.) Either way, given that they don't appear to be too concerned about "complexification," perhaps there's hope for the changes I'm advocating, too.
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 11:26 am
  #49  
 
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But can you imagine the humiliation having to call WN RR program to get "comped" to an elite level? *SHUDDER*.

So would I get comped to "Tin Foil", "Pyrite" (Fools Gold), or "Cubic Zirconium"????

Lance
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 2:20 pm
  #50  
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I guess you could call me one of the converted...

I used to hate Southwest. In the late 1980's, I flew Southwest from ABQ to PHX. I had boarding pass #1, was the first person in general boarding, yet I still got stuck at the back of the plane (there were a lot of through passengers and quite a crowd of pre-boarders). I just assumed that every single Southwest flight was like that one and didn't fly them again until a couple of years ago.

Now that Southwest has gotten its pre-boarding under control and doesn't have as many through passengers now with growth over the last 20 years, even with a B boarding pass I still get a window seat.

During this same time, service on the legacy carriers has dropped dramatically. The days of meals in coach on a 90 minute flight are gone. Even First Class service is getting hit, with fewer meals, plasticware and all-coach planes (Ted on UA and RJ's on every airline).

Last year, I changed a ticket on Southwest to end the trip in Dallas rather than Houston, and the fare dropped $25. Southwest refunded $4.50 in taxes (something that no other airline will do) and gave me a $25 credit valid for one year, with no change fee. This was all done on-line, although I could have done it over the phone at no charge, with no lengthy hold times (usually no hold time at all), and with someone who speaks English and enjoys working there.

No, the Southwest flight attendants are not the stewards and stewardesses of yesteryear, but that is the case on any domestic flight. The other airlines' flight attendants just love to let you know that they are there primarily for your safety. In fact, on one flight, the flight attendant actually said (direct quote), "I am here for your safety only."

Give me the happy Southwest flight attendants over the jaded, bitter, lazy and all-around unhappy flight attendants so often found at other airlines.

I am well aware that being a frequent flyer on Southwest will not get you any award tickets overseas, which is why (in addition to the fact that Southwest does not fly anywhere near my home) I still fly on Delta, United, US Airways until this year (sorry, but you only get so many second chances with me), and sometimes AA.

The legacy airlines' business model was created under regulation and was destined to fail eventually. Southwest Airlines and the TSA (thanks to our overreaction to 9/11) simply hurried up that process. If Southwest Airlines had never existed, someone would have moved into these high fare markets; besides Southwest, there's also Frontier, JetBlue and AirTran (and Spirit, Sun Country, etc.)

When you are charging over $1.00 a mile to fly a 737 in a cramped seating configuration, you are inviting competition, so don't complain when competition shows up to share a piece of that pie.
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 2:25 pm
  #51  
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Originally Posted by JS
The legacy airlines' business model was created under regulation and was destined to fail eventually. Southwest Airlines and the TSA (thanks to our overreaction to 9/11) simply hurried up that process. If Southwest Airlines had never existed, someone would have moved into these high fare markets; besides Southwest, there's also Frontier, JetBlue and AirTran (and Spirit, Sun Country, etc.)

When you are charging over $1.00 a mile to fly a 737 in a cramped seating configuration, you are inviting competition, so don't complain when competition shows up to share a piece of that pie.
^ ^

Very well put. I agree completely.

All companies must adapt or perish. The legacies took far too long to begin their adaptation. It's possible that in a few years, WN will be the legacy that's on the ropes.
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 2:44 pm
  #52  
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Originally Posted by usairwaysLamb
I still "hate" SWA, and always will... the way SWA operates, with employees in bluegeens and wise cracks from the flight attendants, its seems so unprofessional.
Unprofessional? I have never seen a WN employee be anything less than enthusiastic and attentive to customers. I have seen US, NW, UA, etc. employees shout at customers, ignore them, abandon them, threaten them, hide from them, lie to them, whine and complain endlessly about their employer in front of customers, and engage in job action explicitly designed to enrage them. Now you tell me which is unprofessional.

I don't fly WN much, but I admire the hell out of them. They have a consistent, honest product. And I think they have done the airline industry and the flying public incalculable good.

Last edited by BearX220; Aug 18, 2005 at 2:47 pm
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 3:45 pm
  #53  
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Wink

Originally Posted by BearX220
Unprofessional? I have never seen a WN employee be anything less than enthusiastic and attentive to customers.
Airline comes on A&E, you can get an inside view of how rodeo clowns run an airline. Watch and learn!
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 3:53 pm
  #54  
 
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Many of us in the WN forum recently have been moaning about the ongoing demise of our FF program. I have to say that after browsing through 4 pages of some very well-reasoned and some not-so-well reasoned thoughts, it's given me some perspective of why I still LUV and continue to fly WN.

In closing, there are good and bad aspects to every airline. I just don't think it's right to hate an airline just because it's successful at what it does. Although many FTers will pay more for frills, the market has shown that most people will choose low fares over frills. Southwest gives those people what they want.

Originally Posted by kinglobjaw
Southwest Airlines and why they are idiots:

1) A supposedly cheap experience thats misadvertised
Supposedly cheap? It's either cheap or it isn't. WN is no more guilty of advertising fares that are subject to availability than are the other airlines. The only inaccurate advertising I've discovered is the occasional Ding daily double, which is when a fare winds up being lower than what was advertised. I sure don't have a problem with that kind of inaccurate advertising.

2) A horrible website, hard to manouver
The WN Web site does nearly everything that you, as a passenger, would need to do. Book, change or cancel a reservation (including award reservations) - you can do it all online. WN even offers age-restricted senior fares online now.

3) No Hawaii, No Canada and No international service
WN is a company that "sticks to the knitting." You may not agree with WN's cherry-picking of routes, but WN is not going to fly unprofitable routes for the sake of flying them.

4) Horrible frequent flyer, with messed up rewards credits, and credit card that does not show progress in earning and points
I'm not so happy with the FF program right now, but anytime I've had a problem, a simple phone call has ALWAYS taken care of it. A few months ago, my WN credits from a flight didn't post (because Customer Service did me a favor and reinstated an itinerary I had canceled). I called, got a person on the phone right away and my credits were posted by the time I hung up the phone. Compare that to a similar situation the following week with Continental. This time, it was Continental's fault for not posting the miles and yet I had a surly representative require me to find and mail my original boarding passes along with a form. It took 3 weeks for my miles to post.

5) No neat bording process loading people on theyre planes like animals loaded on a freight train, no ahead of time seat assingments
I used to dislike the lack of seat assignments, but it *does* make a difference in turnaround times. Back in June, it took 40 minutes to turnaround a US plane, but I've had WN planes turnaround in 20 minutes. A few minutes before boarding, I join the end of the "A" line and always have my choice of seats. No pushing or shoving necessary.

6) no elite lvls, no first class and no free upgrades
How many threads have there been about elites having been downgraded or skipped over. Again, this is about expectations. More often than not, my expectations of US are not met. Rarely are my expectations of WN unmet. I still fly US despite this so I don't complain.

7) Fools trying to start up "major" operations at Love Field, bringing economy down in Dallas, making peaceful community loud by flying planes.
I don't live in Dallas, but the majors don't seem to have a problem building up overcrowded airports like DCA and LGA and pushing to have limits at those airports repealed.

8) If more than 1 airport in city, major operation are at the smaller airport, worse, less prestigous airport aka Love Field, Midway in Chicago ( by the way go ORD)
Presitigous airports? I didn't know we choose where to fly based on the "prestige" of the airport. I'll take MDW over ORD or PVD or MHT over BOS anyday.

9) Trying to break into other airlines airports aka PHL, PIT, FLL, MDW and more. The airlines just cant create its own airport and expand from there.
The last time I checked, airlines don't own the airports. FWIW, WN paid for its new terminal at ISP.

10) No airline partners, just bankrupt ATA, with non intertwined routes, to serve passenger joinltly, so little earning reward earning opportunities, just some hotels and car rental companies.
I'll take 1 WN RR credit (1/16 of an unrestricted RT) over 500 US miles (1/80 of an unrestricted RT) for a rental car or hotel stay.

11) No nice airplanes, just small old 737 airplanes.
With WN, I never have to worry about RJ's, turbo-props or plane swaps because it's an all 737 fleet. The legacy airlines fly very few wide-bodies domestically (at least in my experience) so there's little difference between a transcon flight on US and one on WN as far as aircraft size is concerned.

I can think of only one time that I've been dissatisfied with the condition of a WN plane. I won't even begin to comment on the condition of US planes. There have been enough threads on that topic already.

WN has retired many of its old 737s. Maybe I've been lucky, but 8 out of the last 10 WN flights I've been on were on relatively new 737-700s.


12) Service non proffesional.
I've encountered a few bad apples on WN, but they have all been outshined by many wonderful WN employees. I've also encountered bad apples on US and many excellent employees as well. I appreciate the attitude and demeanor of WN employees because they act like real people. It's a personal preference. Personally, I think it's unprofessional to post a reply that is riddled with spelling and grammatical errors.

13) Nothing to eat on board, just peanuts and tiny beverage
As another poster replied, the snackpacks on WN are more than you get on many legacy airlines these days. Furthermore, the WN snackpack is free while you have to pay for a similar product on TED.

14) Stuck up folks that think cant be beat. Wait to you see the new US Airways you Southwest Ceo Kelly!
I'm not a big fan of Gary Kelly these days, but I don't know enough about him or the US execs to comment. I will say this much - WN employees, for the most part, are happy with their jobs and their employer. It is truly unfortunate that few legacy airlines can make the same claim.

15) This wonderful profit making airlines needs a show called "Airline" to earn some big money. And the funny part is that it shows many of the worst aspects of this already horrible airlines.
WN doesn't need Airline although it obviously thinks there is some benefit associated with the show. I don't really like the show so I don't watch - it's pretty simple.


The question is... Why do so many people follow the blindness of the crowd. Some of us are like horses with patches on our eyes limiting to look in one direction. Time to open up our eyes.

LOT Polish Airlines Youre Under Our Wing www.lot.com

You wont regret flying with US www.usairways.com

Last edited by bwiflyer01; Aug 18, 2005 at 4:06 pm
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 3:58 pm
  #55  
 
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Thank You Bwiflyer

I'm loving that you were able to rebuke this posters ramblings in a concise and intelligent manner. Let's see that poster blast you now. Oh wait?! They can't, you proved them wrong on those 15 points!!

Loving Ya!! ^ ^


PS...........just discovered I'm debating a child, kinglobjaw is not even 16 years old, to quote him. Lord I need a drink! An adult beverage.

Last edited by trvlr64; Aug 19, 2005 at 7:27 am
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 4:50 pm
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by trvlr64
Let's see that poster blast you now. Oh wait?! They can't
Oh, hold on. I am sure it's coming, and I'm willing to bet $5 that it won't make a lick of sense.
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 5:24 pm
  #57  
 
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And in fact a direct flight !

Originally Posted by dhuey
Southwest is wonderful. Even if you've never flown on it, you should be awfully grateful it came around. Had it not, you'd have paid a lot more for your flights -- whichever airline you fly.
My son just moved to Orlando and the quickest and cheapest way for him to get to his girlfriend is via Southwest or Airtran , whichever is cheapest, he takes! NON STOP anywhere from $135 to $195 so far.
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 5:29 pm
  #58  
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Originally Posted by usairwaysLamb
Airline comes on A&E, you can get an inside view of how rodeo clowns run an airline. Watch and learn!
I think my point stands.
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 8:18 pm
  #59  
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Originally Posted by usairwaysLamb
Im gonna get some hate mail for this, but I HATE Southwest Airlines! I am so sick of hearing how great they are and how wounderful the route system is and how low they price fares and... and... it just goes on and on! Uhhhh!! Shutup media! Southwest is not THAT great!

Yep. I totally agree with you. Southwest is like cheap wine, and I don't even drink lol.
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Old Aug 19, 2005, 8:44 am
  #60  
 
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Originally Posted by usairwaysLamb
Im gonna get some hate mail for this, but I HATE Southwest Airlines! I am so sick of hearing how great they are and how wounderful the route system is and how low they price fares and... and... it just goes on and on! Uhhhh!! Shutup media! Southwest is not THAT great!
No SWA isn't that great! BUT as others have stated, they deliver what they promise. Actually they set the expectations so low that is nearly impossible not to meet or beat the expectations.

Also they are seldom the cheapest. the survey that has been floating around and was published in the SP times showed SWA is the cheapest ticket only 26% of the time.

Managing customer expectations and having a marketing program that helps define that expectation along with being an operationally sound airline is pretty darn good business practice if you ask me.

Having said all of that I still don't like the product even a little. But I don't like GM cars either. So guess what? I don't buy GM cars or SWA tickets.

SWA has clearly defined for the public who they are and deliver based on their definition. They have a plan and they execute it well.

I would argue that if the HP/US merger goes through and the new US can successfully create a clear definition of itself then the airline will be very successful and SWA will finally have a formidable competitor. When the airline industry finally figures out that you can't out SWA, SWA then you will see some highly creative ideas that will give SWA fits. Remember not everyone buys at Wal_Mart or Nordstroms, Some use Target and IMO the airline that can be the "Target" of aviation will do very very well, as will Wal-Mart Air, aka SWA.

The next few years could be an exciting time to be a frequent flyer.
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