Downgraded from first

Old Dec 2, 2004, 7:41 pm
  #31  
 
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Isn't this the purpose of the limited E & P buckets? I can understand if the aircraft is downgraded from a 321 to a 757 several people will be S.O.L (not that that's any excuse), but in a situation such as a FAM, it seems ludicrous that somebody with an A fare would get the boot. I can't imagine an F cabin full of F, A, Y & B fares with no upgraded roach fares in the mix.
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 7:52 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by JAaronT
I find it hard to believe that 11 other passengers were on full fares, and that a Preferred on a roach fare would trump a full-fare person with a confirmed upgrade (note this disbelief is directed at US, not the OP). Were you sitting in the seat the air marshall just had to have (row 2 aisle)?
It also surprised me that my *G status didn't help move me up the pecking order. I was supposed to be seated in 3B (last row) and I guess it's possible that this was the seat that the Air Marshall wanted. If he did want my seat and there is no official downgrade policy at US, as has been mentioned here, it makes sense that I was bumped back to coach without any regard to the status of the rest of the passengers.
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 8:00 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by renalt130
I was supposed to be seated in 3B (last row) .

You mean 3C? There is no 3B in F.
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 8:01 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by sbtinme
You mean 3C? There is no 3B in F.
No, actually 3D, just looked at my itinerary.
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 8:14 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by renalt130
These are the rules taken from the US website. I'm supposed to be able to see that this is actually a coach ticket? Get real.
My apologies to renalt130. Given the fare rules posted you have every right to be upset and my comments were off base and uncalled for. I've always known that "A" were considered upgraded coach, but don't ask me how unless it was the link JC provided. (maybe it was my experiences on DL where they made it clear twice that "A" fares were upgraded coach). There is absolutely no indications in these fare rules that this is not a "F" ticket.

That being said the "A" fares are almost always the same price as the discount coach fares without the restrictions associated with change fees, etc. Given what was most likely paid for the ticket vs a coach ticket I'm not sure that there is refund due from this angle. "A" fares are a great way for individuals with no status to upgrade for a reasonable cost.

If US follows the same process in bumping that they do in upgrading at the gate (i.e. wait list). fare has nothing to do with the decision who gets upgraded. A CP on the cheapest of roach fares will trump a GP or less on a full fare Y ticket. Once you get to the gate, status is everything. The only time a full fare ticket trumps a CP or GP is when there is inventory in the 'P" bucket coming into the process at the gate. If "P" is gone. the full fare Y ticket is going to be sitting in coach.

I'm guessing, but do not know for sure, that the process works in reverse as well. If someone has to be bumped, for what ever reason, the CP's are going to be protected regardless of the fare they paid. (Being a CP with well over a 100 segments on US I can't say that I disagree with this policy. ) I'm guessing that renalt has no status on US and possibly no UA status either. If this is the case, I think US is going to start with those without status first and work their way up the ranks of the preferred members. Doesn't make it right, but I'm guessing this is the way it works.

Now back to the OP. Given the fares do not mention in any way that is a coach fare, US may not feel they have an obligation here, but at the very least a confirmed space positive upgrade should be provided, even if it was an air marshal who got the seat.

Again my apologies to renalt130.

Last edited by longing4piedmont; Dec 2, 2004 at 8:54 pm
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 8:26 pm
  #36  
 
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I'm with the OP here too. My bet is that the FAM wanted your seat, and rather than bump someone else in first so you can take their seat, they just bumped you. 21% less work, I guess. I've purchased a few of those fares in my time (mostly on AA), and my travel agent shows them as FIRST CLASS on my confirmation with no mention of coach. Only on asking them they tell me its officially a coach ticket upgraded at ticketing at no charge.

I would think that USAirways would offer that special cert that lets you upgrade any flight in advance (I forget what its called) to make up for what happened; in theory that upgrade doesn't cost them much or anything, and is fair. But oh well, I guess we can't expect much from "Your Fault"
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 8:55 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by jcooke
Agreed, there seems to be no standardized procedure as far as procedures that happen with downgrades. I've actually been assigned in row2 on larger planes and then the dreaded 757 swap comes in - I get moved out on an upgraded B fare. Other times I've heard of people in these seats were semi-protected.
I had it happen where I had an upgraded seat ex-LAS on a "shorty" 757 during the transition period, and at least two people who paid (or claimed to pay, given the amount of huff exchanged) were in the back. I fully expected to be given the boot, especially given that my upgrade cleared day of departure.

Were it me, I'd do downgrades thusly (in reverse order of who would get downgraded):

Last to go: purchased F fares. Sort by fare paid if it comes to that.

US1
US2
US3
US4

Within the preferred ranks, either sort by fare paid or status miles to date in the year (the roach in me says miles are the way to go, but fare paid is also a possibility, IMO).

If they would not tell you why, it's almost certainly a FAM.
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Old Dec 9, 2004, 7:41 pm
  #38  
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Thumbs up

I got a call from Consumer Affairs today after emailing them last week at longing4piedmont's suggestion. The explanation was pretty much the same I had gotten when I called them. The Air Marshall specifically wanted my seat, nobody had been upgraded at the gate and my A fare was amazingly inexpensive.

They offered me a confirmed NA upgrade for the inconvenience and I'm very satisfied with that. I do think they could have handled the situation better though. If the gate agent had been able to issue an upgrade certificate or if Consumer Affairs had offered it the first time I called, my complaining would have been kept to a minimum.

All in all I'm happy with the outcome. Like I said in my first post I've come into contact with some terrific US employees. Some of the flight attendants are amazingly funny/thoughtful/interesting and I look forward to flying with them again.
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Old Dec 9, 2004, 8:45 pm
  #39  
 
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I wonder. I'm on a first class award (Yes, I know waste, but whatever) on a 757 with two rows of first class. If an air marshall bumps you to the back, what would you expect? I would expect a refund of the difference in miles from coach to first, but of course it gets more complicated when you only get bumped one of the ways, or if its only one segment of multiple, etc, etc.

Well, more thumbs down to the sacks of ... well the regulars will know the rest of that sentence

PS- I'm glad it worked out for the OP. Sounds satisfactory to me too.
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 7:50 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by renalt130
They offered me a confirmed NA upgrade for the inconvenience and I'm very satisfied with that. I do think they could have handled the situation better though. If the gate agent had been able to issue an upgrade certificate or if Consumer Affairs had offered it the first time I called, my complaining would have been kept to a minimum.
That's good --- they should've done just that the first time this was brought to their attention. I hope that they will make this standard practice in the event of similar situations.
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 9:00 am
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by renalt130
The problem is that if US can bump A class passengers any time they feel like it what's the point of buying A tickets?
Well, it wasn't really US, it was the last minute air marshall. I mean, what can they do? They HAVE to board this guy in 1st, so they HAVE to bump somebody, and in this case, due to fare/status, it was unfortunately you...
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 5:25 pm
  #42  
 
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If the air marshall wants to be close to the front there's always the forward lav...
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 9:03 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by TomBascom
If the air marshall wants to be close to the front there's always the forward lav...
Good idea - s/he would certainly retain the element of surprise... I can imagine them jumping out:

"Noooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 10:33 pm
  #44  
 
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I just had this same thing happen on a B class fare - which I guarenteed to 1st class - and was told an air marshall took my seat at the last minute. I paid extra for b class just so I could upgrade at purchase (3 months earlier) - a cheaper ticket was available. As it was one leg of a 4 leg trip no compensation was offered. I finally - after much time, effort, and 2 bad consumer relation experiences prior to a satisfactory one - was able to change my flight times to a time with 1st available. I was taking a friend on a trip of a lifetime - and 1st class was important to the expeience - hence the extra expense.

There should be some accomadation when guaranteed 1st class is taken away at the last minute and extra $ actually changed hands for the seat. At least a future upgrade or easy ability to change to another time on the same day if it is available (that was my solution - but only after being told no twice).
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Old Aug 15, 2005, 11:49 pm
  #45  
 
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Nice Response from the CP Desk

On a trip this afternoon/evening from BOS to CLT and CLT to BNA, I was confirmed in both legs in F at the seven day CP upgrade window. The BOS to CLT leg was delayed by about 1.5 hours, but I was in good shape since the ship on the first flight would also be used on the CLT to BNA leg. Upon arrival in CLT at 7:25, they had already decided that the CLT to BNA flight would be on a different ship, but same equipment (737). The second flight was scheduled to take off at 7:00, but was still at the gate with the boarding door open. I was in luck that the new gate was right next to my arrival gate, but I was surprised when I was informed that I had been downgraded to coach. The gate agent claimed that they didn't think I would make it on my inbound flight in time and had reassigned my seat. While this conversation occured, someone came running up behind me, showed his boarding pass and took a seat in F.

I understand that since I didn't pay for F, I should have no expectation for F, but I've never been downgraded like this in 3 years as a CP. Has anyone else been downgraded like this for reasons other than a FAM taking a seat or an equipment change, i.e. 320 to 757? It would seem that the same system that always holds flights for late inbound pax would also save seat assignments for said pax.

The always helpful CP desk made a nice gesture by upgrading a future flight outside of the 7 day window. I really hope the new US keeps this perk.
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