Downgraded from first

Old Dec 2, 2004, 1:30 pm
  #16  
 
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Welcome

Welcome to FT Jennyann. Your input will be more than welcome here. Don't judge us all by the thread you see here. You will find that the vast majority of the posters here are very loyal customers who want US to survive. Just like other boards you may visit, from time to time we like to vent at management here as well.

They do lurk here daily so we know they hear us when we do. Our favorite whipping boy on here is Ben Baldanza vs Jerry Glass so we just go after a different part of the management team.

Hope to see you around here oftern.
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 1:36 pm
  #17  
 
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Now wait a second. I just checked a couple of A fares on usairways.com, and they are all described in the fare details/rules as "First Class Restricted", "First Class Excursion" or some such. How is that an upgraded coach ticket? It says first class, so it must be first class, no?
lt1GM is offline  
Old Dec 2, 2004, 1:52 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by lt1GM
Now wait a second. I just checked a couple of A fares on usairways.com, and they are all described in the fare details/rules as "First Class Restricted", "First Class Excursion" or some such. How is that an upgraded coach ticket? It says first class, so it must be first class, no?
First class ticket if space is available, otherwise you're in the back.

Its just like how all of the A4COACH fares work. Technically they're coach fares but upgrades to F are immediate if space is avail:

A4COACH

-JC

Last edited by jcooke; Dec 2, 2004 at 1:53 pm Reason: grammer speeling and punktuashin.
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 2:05 pm
  #19  
 
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I'm with Renalt130 on this. My understanding has always been that the A booking class is a coach fare in which you are purchasing the right to be seated in the F section if space is available at purchase. Fare details for an A4COACHF fare on Travelocity label it at "FIRST CLASS UNRESTRICTED NORMAL FARE." Thus, even if you're paying a lower fare, you have purchased the right to sit in F. Since they denied you a seat in the cabin you purchased, they should follow their IDB policy, especially since seat acquisition by TSA is not unexpected these days. A downgrade certificate for use in upgrading a future flight is the least that they should do. Keep pushing and good luck.

P. S. Based on recent experience, don't expect a fast turnaround to a response from US Customer Service.

edited to correct misspelling and elaborate on one point.

Last edited by TRRed; Dec 2, 2004 at 2:08 pm
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 2:22 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by jcooke
First class ticket if space is available, otherwise you're in the back.

Its just like how all of the A4COACH fares work. Technically they're coach fares but upgrades to F are immediate if space is avail:

A4COACH

-JC
I still maintain that there are A fares that are FIRST CLASS such as this:

Fare details for AE71QNG
FIRST CLASS EXCURSION

We should find out from the OP if he/she was on an A4COACH fare or other.
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 2:32 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by longing4piedmont
Good bye !!!!

You received an explantion. Do not blame US if you didn't read the terms of the ticket prior to purchase. And before you say it, it is your responsiblity to know the terms and condition of the ticket. You were entitled to NOTHING and so you think you would be happy if US gave a couple hundred off your next ticket. Get real.

These are the rules taken from the US website. I'm supposed to be able to see that this is actually a coach ticket? Get real.


Fare details for A4CCHQ1

BK CODE
A -
PENALTY
CHANGES CHANGES PERMITTED NOTE - EARLIER/ LATER SAME DAY STANDBY IS PERMITTED - ALL FARE RULES MUST BE MET
SEASONS
NO SEASON RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
BLACKOUTS
NO BLACKOUT RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
FLT APPL
NO FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
STOPOVERS
NO ENROUTE STOPOVERS PERMITTED. A STOPOVER OCCURS WHEN THE PASSENGER DOES NOT DEPART AN INTERMEDIATE POINT WITHIN 4 HOURS.
TICKET RESTRICTIONS
NO SALES RESTRICTION APPLY.
DISCOUNTS
50 PCT OF THE ADT FARE IS CHARGED FOR AN INS PSGR UNDER 2 YRS OF AGE. ONLY 2 PSGRS ARE PERMITTED AT THIS DISCOUNT PER ADT PSGR. INS PSGR MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL SGMTS BY AN ADT PSGR TRAVELING IN THE SAME COMPARTMENT. - - - - NO FARE IS CHARGED FOR AN INF PSGR UNDER 2 YRS OF AGE NOT OCCUPYING A SEAT. INF PSGR MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL SGMTS BY AN ADT PSGR TRAVELING IN THE SAME COMPARTMENT. *** TOUR CONDUCTOR DISOUNTS - NOTE - 6035 IN DGR APPLIES. AGENT DISCOUNTS - 6050 IN DGR APPLIES.
REROUTE
SEE PENALTY.
TRANSFERS
6 TRANSFERS PERMITTED, 3 IN EACH DIRECTION.
COMBINATIONS
CONDITIONS APPLICABLE TO CIRCLE TRIP/SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAW - -MAY BE COMBINED WITH ANY ONE WAY/ROUND TRIP FARE GOVERNED BY ANY RULE IN ANY TARIFF VIA ANY CARRIER. -MOST RESTRICTIVE CONDITIONS APPLY. NOTE: WHEN COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH A ROUND TRIP FARE TO FORM ROUND/CIRCLE/OPEN JAW TRIPS--THE MOST RESTRICTIVE PROVISIONS APPLY. THESE INCLUDE MIN/MAX STAY- RESERVATIONS/TICKET REQUIREMENTS -STOPOVER PROVISIONS-CANCEL/CHANGE FEES OR COMBINATION PROVISIONS. ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS APPLY CIRCLE TRIP - -PERMITTED. -UNLIMITED FARE BREAKS/STOPOVERS PERMITTED. OPEN JAW - -SINGLE OPEN JAW PERMITTED AT EITHER ORIGIN OR DESTINATION. DOUBLE OPEN JAW PERMITTED. END-ON-END - -PERMITTED. TRAVEL MUST BE VIA THE FARE COMBINATION POINT. CO-TERMINALS - -THE FOLLOWING GROUPS OF CITIES ARE CONSIDERED TO BE THE SAME POINT EWR - HPN - NYC - ISP, LAX - ONT - SNA, OAK - SFO - SJC, BED - BOS, BWI - WAS, FLL - MIA, ORF - PHF.
OPEN RTN
ALLOWED.
REFUNDS
SEE PENALTY.
CO-TERMINALS
-THE FOLLOWING GROUPS OF CITIES ARE CONSIDERED TO BE THE SAME POINT EWR - HPN - NYC - ISP, LAX - ONT - SNA, OAK - SFO - SJC, BED - BOS, BWI - WAS, FLL - MIA, ORF - PHF.
MISC
PROPOSED VOLUNTARY CHANGES - REFER TO PENALTIES CATEGORY. FARE MAY NOT BE USED IN DIFFERENTIAL FARE CONSTRUCTION.
renalt130 is offline  
Old Dec 2, 2004, 2:41 pm
  #22  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Smile

Originally Posted by longing4piedmont
Welcome to FT Jennyann. Your input will be more than welcome here. Don't judge us all by the thread you see here. You will find that the vast majority of the posters here are very loyal customers who want US to survive. Just like other boards you may visit, from time to time we like to vent at management here as well.

They do lurk here daily so we know they hear us when we do. Our favorite whipping boy on here is Ben Baldanza vs Jerry Glass so we just go after a different part of the management team.

Hope to see you around here oftern.
Thank You!! Just so everyone knows....I do value all of my passengers! (and I long for Piedmont as well!!)
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 2:52 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by jcooke
First class ticket if space is available, otherwise you're in the back.

Its just like how all of the A4COACH fares work. Technically they're coach fares but upgrades to F are immediate if space is avail:

A4COACH

-JC
That does make sense but first class was available when I booked the ticket and I was assigned a seat in first. If no first class seats had been available when I purchased the ticket I would have no complaints about sitting in Y.

The problem is that if US can bump A class passengers any time they feel like it what's the point of buying A tickets?
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 2:58 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by renalt130
The problem is that if US can bump A class passengers any time they feel like it what's the point of buying A tickets?
My thought exactly! If it's going to be a gamble if you get your FC seat, then you might as well pay the roach fare at significant savings and gamble that way instead.

If it's a FC seat at booking (not space available or 7-day window but at booking), then you should NOT be moveable on the day of travel. If this becomes a trend, then they'll lose a lot of money, as there will be ZERO incentive to buy A-fares.

The letter of the "fare law" may be that you have no guarantee but the spirit in which they have been marketing this fare says it's a FC seat. Period.
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 3:47 pm
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by renalt130
3. The other first class passenger's combination of fare paid and status trumped mine.
I find it hard to believe that 11 other passengers were on full fares, and that a Preferred on a roach fare would trump a full-fare person with a confirmed upgrade (note this disbelief is directed at US, not the OP). Were you sitting in the seat the air marshall just had to have (row 2 aisle)?
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 4:02 pm
  #26  
 
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Once an F seat is assigned, leave it be

I am surprised that some of my fellow FTers are blasting the OP here. I really do feel the same way he does. If I cough up the $$$ for an A fare and US tells me that they can drop me right into the front cabin and "which seat would I prefer?" -- then I take that as a right to an F seat. F inventory was reduced by one seat when he booked, right?!?!?

The mysterious puzzle piece here is what was the makeup of the other 11 paying pax in that front cabin that night? Does a CP on a non A fare trump a Gold member on an A fare? Have any of us ever seen the flowchart for such a priority matrix?

At any rate, I find it foolish to disregard the OP's issue here. Yes, I can understand that if a "Govt' Passenger" (ahem) is suddenly assigned to a flight where one was not originally planned, someone is going to be bumped. That's not comfortable at all. I just think that airlines need to recognize the significant customer issue involved in upgrading a pax well in advance and establishing that expectation and then having him show up at the gate and told "welcome to your new seat --- 22E."

Isn't this sort of like being promised the oceanfront suite in advance and getting to the hotel and as you check in are told that you have been switched to a gardenview room with two twin beds??

Last edited by sbtinme; Dec 2, 2004 at 4:05 pm
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 5:25 pm
  #27  
 
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I also have travelled on a lot of these.

I'm with the OP - it is a FC fare allbeit a discounted one.

Space has to be available in FC since it is never F0 A1+. It can be A1 Y0

ITN can show A1 P0 E0 and you will still get a FC seat. You can not "upgrade" into the A bucket and the seat does not come out of the upgrade buckets.

It earns the same miles as a FC seat.

The fare rules say FC.

When they list fare classes for FC/Business it says F A C D Z J . See eligible fare classes off this link http://www.usairways.com/dividendmil...promo_2004.htm

You use no media to upgrade - even with no status.

It just happens to price out the same as a full Y ticket.


I think we had this same discussion back in May. I'll search for the posts later.
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 5:58 pm
  #28  
 
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I'm with the OP as well. The fare rules call it FC. It earns miles like a FC ticket.

That said, US almost never uses ticket class and/or status when somebody gets downgraded--when the whole "shrinking 757" debacle hit at the same time as the F sale to LAS, they'd regularly put people who paid F into the back, when leaving smart CPs on upgraded tickets who happened to score row 1 or row 2 seats upfront.
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 6:22 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by ClueByFour
I'm with the OP as well. The fare rules call it FC. It earns miles like a FC ticket.

That said, US almost never uses ticket class and/or status when somebody gets downgraded--when the whole "shrinking 757" debacle hit at the same time as the F sale to LAS, they'd regularly put people who paid F into the back, when leaving smart CPs on upgraded tickets who happened to score row 1 or row 2 seats upfront.
Agreed, there seems to be no standardized procedure as far as procedures that happen with downgrades. I've actually been assigned in row2 on larger planes and then the dreaded 757 swap comes in - I get moved out on an upgraded B fare. Other times I've heard of people in these seats were semi-protected.

-JC
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 6:47 pm
  #30  
 
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I'm a CP and I enjoy my upgrades at least as much as the next guy. But I'm appalled that they would bump someone who paid for an A fare (or a full Y or B fare) ahead of me. No wonder they're broke.

There should be a well defined downgrading process and there should be some token offered when it happens (which better be a rare event.) Personally I'd be pretty happy with a TA UG cert
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