Charlotte?

Reply

Old Aug 14, 04, 12:12 pm
  #1  
pgalore
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Charlotte?

Any guesses as to what would happen to the Charlotte hub if things did get worse for US?

Charlotte is one of the easiest hubs to fly in and out of. And I would think that it actually was one of the hubs that made money for US, as there are no LCCs to compete with them there. I have met people from Charlotte in RDU, who drive to Raleigh or GSO to fly to DCA (2-3 hours), because the tickets out of Charlotte are so outrageous.

So if US gave up some of its dominance there, the people of Charlotte would probably be happier.

Not that I want this to happen, but it seems reasonable to expect that if a window of opportunity opens for a LLC in Charlotte, that people would definitely take advantage of that, rather than having to drive 2-3 hours to get a reasonably priced ticket.

Last edited by pgalore; Aug 15, 04 at 10:04 am
 
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 14, 04, 7:12 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DCA
Programs: AA Executive Platinum
Posts: 2,063
Well what I know is that CLT hasn't seen the light of any gofares for this exact reason- there are no LCC's to compete with there! But, apparently flyI is coming this fall, so I think US may start offering GoFares on DCA-CLT to compete.
GotCalcio4 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 14, 04, 11:34 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SNA/BNA/YVR
Programs: UA 1K, SPG Platinum, Marriott Platinum Prem, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Diamond, IHG Gold
Posts: 2,100
Originally Posted by GotCalcio4
Well what I know is that CLT hasn't seen the light of any gofares for this exact reason- there are no LCC's to compete with there! But, apparently flyI is coming this fall, so I think US may start offering GoFares on DCA-CLT to compete.


US isn't doing anything from TYS-Washington. United seems to be the only one matching I's fares to DC. Most are matching beyond DC, but United (not US) seems to be the most aggressive with this market. And since I get US Miles on UA, I just go with it. It's US's loss.
chicaloca453 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 04, 9:29 am
  #4  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 41,058
There is a lot of concern that the degree of trouble US is in now is enough that it would make them liquidate. If that happens there will be a lot of empty gates at Charlotte very abruptly. Presumably, one or more carriers would fill some, but not all, of that service in over time if that were to happen.
GadgetFreak is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 04, 9:57 am
  #5  
pgalore
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
There is a lot of concern that the degree of trouble US is in now is enough that it would make them liquidate. If that happens there will be a lot of empty gates at Charlotte very abruptly. Presumably, one or more carriers would fill some, but not all, of that service in over time if that were to happen.
If US does ever leave Charlotte, I bet that it will be one of the last hubs standing for US anywhere, because this is one of the few airports remaining where US has the monopoly on outgoing/incoming flights, and has to be a cash cow for them.

Plus, as a hub, it doesn't ever have major weather delays like PHL or DCA. PHL will go before Charlotte.

Plus Charlotte has the B of A headquarters, and they have more money to burn on airline tickets than the overall public.
 
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 04, 7:08 pm
  #6  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 41,058
Originally Posted by pgalore
If US does ever leave Charlotte, I bet that it will be one of the last hubs standing for US anywhere, because this is one of the few airports remaining where US has the monopoly on outgoing/incoming flights, and has to be a cash cow for them.

Plus, as a hub, it doesn't ever have major weather delays like PHL or DCA. PHL will go before Charlotte.

Plus Charlotte has the B of A headquarters, and they have more money to burn on airline tickets than the overall public.
I dont think people see them as leaving Charlotte or PHL. The question is will they be operating at all. They arent in a position to shut down either hub, it isnt a question of last hub standing. I think they fly with this arrangement or they dont fly at all. I dont think they are in a position where any of the things you say, even though they are all true, are relevent. I dont see how PHL can go and US stay in business. PHL will only go if the company liquidates.
GadgetFreak is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 04, 9:26 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SMF
Programs: AA Advantage, AF Frequence Plus, NW World Perks, RG Smiles, QF Frequent Flyer, SQ Kris Flyer
Posts: 210
Red face

Charlotte will perhaps go the way via American Airlines at Raleigh! However, Charlotte is in a very different situation than Raleigh due to the fact that American Airlines was not near death at the time that RDU closed as a base/focus city in the mid 1990's. In addition the RDU-LGW 777 service with American Airlines is heavily subsidized with Glaxo/SmithKline.

Possible summations for Charlotte would include: Air Tran, America West, Jet Blue, and Southwest inagurating or stepping up pre existing service in the market.

Delta is more than content to be in Atlanta and with their current shape they are not going to be able to buy or add anything anytime soon.

American Airlines already is in RDU, and their nearest bases of ORD, DFW, MIA, and JFK would only further oversaturate the market.

Northwest Airlines is in woes with Memphis - this could be an airline that may take a grater interest in Charlotte.

Continental Airlines and its current business plan have no room for a mid-Atlantic base.

Charlotte serves a niche market. Do you think Lufthansa would be serving Chrlotte if it was not for the US Airways connecting traffic? Do you think US Airways could fill LGW, FRA, and CDG from CLT with only local traffic... No.. No... and No...
SMF777 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 04, 7:13 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by chicaloca453
US isn't doing anything from TYS-Washington. United seems to be the only one matching I's fares to DC. Most are matching beyond DC, but United (not US) seems to be the most aggressive with this market. And since I get US Miles on UA, I just go with it. It's US's loss.
FYI, US just announced GoFares to Knoxville. That'll make visiting the family easier. Just hope they don't find out, and have them expect me to visit every month!
kreeft is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 04, 8:25 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Programs: American Airlines Platinum, National Executive
Posts: 3,766
Perhaps United would take Charlotte if US Airways went under? Otherwise the Star Alliance wouldn't have much presence in the southeast. United's flights from Dulles serve the southeast but they don't dominate that part of the country like Delta and US Airways currently do.
NYCommuter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 04, 8:30 am
  #10  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 41,058
Originally Posted by NYCommuter
Perhaps United would take Charlotte if US Airways went under? Otherwise the Star Alliance wouldn't have much presence in the southeast. United's flights from Dulles serve the southeast but they don't dominate that part of the country like Delta and US Airways currently do.
I suspect United is more concerned at this point with trying to keep ORD.
GadgetFreak is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 04, 10:21 am
  #11  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DCA
Programs: AA Executive Platinum
Posts: 2,063
Originally Posted by SMF777
Charlotte will perhaps go the way via American Airlines at Raleigh! However, Charlotte is in a very different situation than Raleigh due to the fact that American Airlines was not near death at the time that RDU closed as a base/focus city in the mid 1990's. In addition the RDU-LGW 777 service with American Airlines is heavily subsidized with Glaxo/SmithKline.

Possible summations for Charlotte would include: Air Tran, America West, Jet Blue, and Southwest inagurating or stepping up pre existing service in the market.

Delta is more than content to be in Atlanta and with their current shape they are not going to be able to buy or add anything anytime soon.

American Airlines already is in RDU, and their nearest bases of ORD, DFW, MIA, and JFK would only further oversaturate the market.

Northwest Airlines is in woes with Memphis - this could be an airline that may take a grater interest in Charlotte.

Continental Airlines and its current business plan have no room for a mid-Atlantic base.

Charlotte serves a niche market. Do you think Lufthansa would be serving Chrlotte if it was not for the US Airways connecting traffic? Do you think US Airways could fill LGW, FRA, and CDG from CLT with only local traffic... No.. No... and No...

SW doesn't currently serve CLT, so it would actually be them inagurating service there (or did I misunderstand your statement?). I do agree with you that CLT would be a logical hub for HP, since they backed out of CMH.

But currently, US doesn't serve CDG from CLT.
GotCalcio4 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 04, 1:13 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Upper Midwest
Programs: DL, AA
Posts: 1,677
Rumors from the NW board: NW's CEO Richard Anderson has been flying back and forth between Charlotte lately...

Just adding more fuel to the fire.
bk42 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 04, 1:56 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,681
Originally Posted by pgalore
Plus, as a hub, it doesn't ever have major weather delays like PHL or DCA.
In my experience -- several dozen trips through CLT in the past 5 or 6 years -- CLT has about as many summer thunderstorm delays as DCA. Granted, DCA probably has more weather delays overall (thanks to the occasional blizzard), but it just ain't true that CLT "doesn't ever" have major weather delays.
beltway is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 04, 4:05 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SNA/BNA/YVR
Programs: UA 1K, SPG Platinum, Marriott Platinum Prem, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Diamond, IHG Gold
Posts: 2,100
Originally Posted by pgalore
If US does ever leave Charlotte, I bet that it will be one of the last hubs standing for US anywhere, because this is one of the few airports remaining where US has the monopoly on outgoing/incoming flights, and has to be a cash cow for them.

Plus, as a hub, it doesn't ever have major weather delays like PHL or DCA. PHL will go before Charlotte.

Plus Charlotte has the B of A headquarters, and they have more money to burn on airline tickets than the overall public.


The most valuable asset US has is its presence at DCA and the shuttle. Both UA and AA covet the shuttle and DCA gates (AA especially since UA has the IAD fallback). AA has virtually no DC presence because both is hubs are in the middle of the country. They would love to have a DC presence, especially with a shuttle.

Since it is the most liquid of the airline's assets, could see it going first. DCA, since its the most valuable, will probably be what goes first. They have to unload what people will take, and that is why I envision Charlotte to be safe, especially in the first round of cuts.
chicaloca453 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 04, 4:13 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SNA/BNA/YVR
Programs: UA 1K, SPG Platinum, Marriott Platinum Prem, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Diamond, IHG Gold
Posts: 2,100
Originally Posted by NYCommuter
Perhaps United would take Charlotte if US Airways went under? Otherwise the Star Alliance wouldn't have much presence in the southeast. United's flights from Dulles serve the southeast but they don't dominate that part of the country like Delta and US Airways currently do.


It is true that Delta is the dominant carrier in the Southeast. If you ask people around here what airline they fly, they just look at you as if they don't know there is more than on airline. Since the FF changes, though, more and more business travelers are migrating away from Delta. Being greedy with the LUT fares has really hurt them......at least on the business front. It is still, however, the easiest way to commute throughout the Southeast -- if you call connecting through Atlanta easy. =)

Personally, I hate Delta. I did see an article in today's USA Today. If what it says is correct, Delta is going to eliminate some non-profitable routes and focus on the ones that are true money makers. For them, that's the international fleet. That could leave some holes open for US to slide into.

US is gaining favor by slowly trying to eliminate the turbo props. Before, I'd take a flight through ORD (even to go to LGA) to avoid the prop. A flight to CLT is much easier for me, and now that they have RJ service, it is a viable option. So at least US is trying to gain or maintain favor in its markets.

I think it's going to be interesting to see how this whole thing shakes out. If Delta does cut back service (do they really need 14 flights a day out of TYS), someone will have to pick up the slack. And with the PTB in Chicago putting their foots down about ORD, both AA and UA may have to look for another hub or min-hub. Perhaps PIT or CLT is the answer.

Of course, if we were making the decisions, things would run a whole lot smoother. Right folks? =)
chicaloca453 is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread