www.iflyswa.com

that was the promotional fare from PHL-PVD. Now its up to $29 each way. Still though, probably a 90% discount from what u used to charge for a non-saturday RT.

kudzu

iflyswa: Whether $19 or $29 or whatever, nobody here disputes the facts of lower prices charged by the LCCs, and US having to match or lower fares in competing markets. As a consumer, I applaud the lowering of prices; as a loyal flier of US, I know that our costs have to go down substantially too.

No offense intended, but some of us here neither have Price as our main priority when we fly, nor a liking for LCCs attributes (no Australia on an award tix, no FC, group boarding, etc). Some of us don't mind paying higher fares than those charged by LCCS for what we perceive to be plusses - seat assignments, interline transfers, a chance to UG especially on a transcon, etc.

You have apparently found happiness flying SouthWest - God Bless You! A lot of us may whine and moan here, but deep down we still have an affection for US, and continue to fly US whenever we can.

dwsnc

I hear somebody's mother calling

RunawayNFly

Well said!!! Besides long term loyalties, different people have different needs and different reasons for flying. What is important for one person is useless or totally unimportant to someone else. Time limit restirictions (use within one year) is a VERY BIG negative for me with Jetblue's & Southwest's programs.The other priorities noted above also are very important to " moi"!

US1@ORF

kudzu - excellent comments. I completely agree with your perspective. I'm not a fan of LCC's for the very same reasons as you list. However, I do realize that not all flyers are like me. Some find SW, J6, and the other LCC's completely satisfactory for their needs. There are a variety of needs and I believe that companies can make money servicing different market segments. US just needs to figure out who it wants as its primary customer base and then focus and go after them. Right now I feel like they cannot decide so they are trying to act like a one size fits all carrier - which is no longer attainable.

TomBascom

Actually the non Saturday RT PHL to PVD used to be north of $700...

The $29 (one way) fares are few and far between but it's pretty easy to pick up a $200 (RT) fare now.

www.iflyswa.com

yes kudzo--there perhaps can be different strokes for different folks. However, it seems the common denominator often seems to be who pays for the ticket. Most people who pay for their own tickets will not be willing to pay five fold higher fares for all these "amenities." In the past, the "full-service" carriers did best among those who flew on expense accounts. After all, who cares if your 300 mile trip costs $700 if it doesn't come out of your pocket, and it improves your upgrade chances next time you fly? The problem is that more and more corporate travel offices are keeping close watch on travel expenses. So the days when airlines like U can charge a huge premium for these amenities is probably coming to an end. Airlines like U may still be able to charge a modest premium, but the key question here is will that premium cover the extra costs, and be enough to stay in business?

chtiet

clearly the end of the world...

EnvoyBoy

Hold on!

The flight was delayed for cleaning? Who are they kidding?

Too bad about the disappointment in having to buy your breakfast--you might have done a little advance research--US is very clear about its IFC "food service".

I'll resist commenting on FC food service.

ibrandsguest

You have been flying from Charlotte to China once a month and you don't have preferred status yet (which should get you some upgrades and free food)? You should ask for a Gold Preferred "fast track" in case you don't have status yet.

Why are you complaining to US Airways that All Nippon didn't get you enough money and that you can't find clothes that fit? You should complain to All Nippon for that. If you had booked a ticket with a longer layover, perhaps your luggage would have made it. The connecting airline or the airport staff could be just as responsible for your lost luggage as US Airway is.

TomBascom

Yes, yes we know all that. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone here who thinks that so-called "business fares" that are 5x (or 10x) coach are in any way justified. Everyone agrees that that model is broken -- even TripleB has said as much.

And it isn't just corporate travel offices that are putting this pressure on business fares -- individual travelers, even those on expense accounts, started doing it long before the corporate types caught on. It has long been known that the fastest way to reduce travel costs is to permit employees to book their own tickets. Individuals are amazingly cheap about what they'll pay when they do it themselves... (Of course there are bad apples -- but they're the exception.)

You will find disagreement here on what the proper premium over an LCC a full service carrier ought to be able to obtain is. Some people seem to think that 0%is the right number, others are closer to 100% (which is way less than the 5x or 10x...) A lot of the differences are related to differences in opinion on what "full service" means and the perception of what it costs to provide.

Quite frankly I think that a lot of people, such as yourself, have grossly over-estimated the cost side of the equation. You appear to think that the amenities of the dividend miles program are so costly that the airline cannot possibly afford them. I'm inferring from that that you might also think that their current financial problems are tied to these amenities.

That's crap. Spoon-fed from airline flacks who don't want people to pay attention to the real problem -- management ineptitude.

Dividend miles is a profit center. The airline earns more from dividend miles than it costs. I estimate that they're making 10 to 15% annually on their paltry investment in me, maybe more. I wish I had investments that performed that well -- I'd put a lot more into them than the $200 a year that US puts into my dividend miles account. The best part is that neither of us pays for that -- the profits all come from 3rd parties paying for access to the customer base.

But either way -- profit or loss -- dividend miles and the amenities are just a tiny little drop in the airlines financial picture. Neither ruin nor salvation is going to come from that quarter.

Their financial problem is real simple -- they spend too much money on the payroll. Is that because individuals are over-paid? No. It's because they (management) doesn't arrange to do the work efficiently. Labor costs make dividend miles look like the chump change you find under a cushion.

SWA can pay it's people more money on an individual basis because they get more out of them by managing the work better. To a great extent that's because they have a very simple product -- but that's not the whole story. They also have great management. US doesn't have great management and the biggest blunder they could possibly make would be to blindly emulate the superficial details of SWA's success. They have a better chance of seeing "The Return of The Business Traveler" than they do of succeeding by becoming just like SWA.

Herb can be heard laughing clear across the country every time a legacy airline "executive" decides to adopt one of the supposed keys to SWA's success. SWA's most brilliant strategy is the way that they've misled an entire industry while they've taken the shirts right off their back. (I watched a magician do that once -- it was a pretty cool trick...)

They real road to success is to get labor costs under control, to start managing the company competently and to market the product properly.

Dont call me Shirley

Tom,
[Applause]

GotCalcio4

I second that!

www.iflyswa.com

you are probably correct that at least the direct costs of dividend miles is quite low. As a matter of fact, it may be the case that the cost of rapid rewards is greater. Rapid Rewards allows members to take any available seat, even if it is the last seat for sale. As a result RR members frequently take seats that would have otherwise been sold at full fare. DM members generally only take seats that would have been empty anyways.

However, some of the indirect costs of these amenities may be costly. For example, maintaining that first class cabin for upgrades is costly because it represents lost revenue in terms of reduced seats. That cost may have been worthwhile in the days when many people filling those seats were paying $700 to go PHL-PVD or $2000 to go PHL-LAX. It is less worthwhile when it is filled by customers paying $29 one way fares to PVD or $99 to LAX.

GotCalcio4

It is worthwhile when you're keeping the ones who're paying the $29 fares 3x a month happy by giving them some upgrades.