TPA us ff

Sorry, Tober138, I don't understand. So your boss, company, spouse, whomever, pays for your ticket. Somehow your service expectations are denigrated?

If your company pays for you and clients to attend the symphony and all the musicians play flat . . . that’s OK because you didn’t pay?

I'm own a professional service business and I can't imagine lowering my product because someone else pays.

And BTW, I pay for my flights.

For a real laugh, read how the US website describes the beloved First Class experience:

http://www.usairways.com/pro_service...irst_class.htm

Gosh, those wily posters in "First Class Sucks" have just GOT to be wrong. The US website surely states only the truth :-).

For me, I have seen neither an appetizing meal choice nor a premium wine in ages.

geo1005

Having just completed several flights on other carriers, it makes me realize just how poor the US FC domestic product truly is. UA flight from IAD-ORD in First on a 757 had a nice snack on a real plate, real glass for the drinks and a very nice pair of FA's performing inflight services. Jackets were hung, drink refills offered without asking, etc. ORD-NRT in UA Business was comparable to US Envoy although the Champagne was much better on UA. I would flip in my seat if US offered Bilecart-Salmon in Envoy. I flew KE Prestige Class yesterday from ICN-SIN (6 hours) and even the best US transcon could never compare. Beckles will remind me that this is not a fair comparison (agreed) but still.... it was the attitude toward the passengers that made the difference.

[This message has been edited by geo1005 (edited 10-22-2003).]

NeoOfTheCRS

Geo is right. Business Class on a UA 767-300 from IAD to SFO is an infinitely better product than US F Class. I kept the menu to remind myself it was not a dream.

Beckles

Why would you compare ICN-SIN in Biz Class to a US Transcon? PHL-LGW is basically the same flight length (less than an hour longer) and international, for a fair comparison why not just compare it to Envoy on a "short" Transatlantic flight like PHL-LGW?

By the way, you're a brave man flying KE.

(Sorry, I really don't think KE is that bad, but they have gotten a lot of grief for their safety record and I couldn't resist.)

Tober138

"'I'm sorry but, with all due respect, that is such a stupid argument that I'm going to call it what it is. Stupid. Again, I'm sorry. Nothing personal but that just can't be left alone."

Don't apologize - everyone's entitled to their opinion. In fact, I would make the same claim regarding your argument:

"Maybe some of you are incredibly lucky but I've yet to work for a company that pays me for the time that I spend in those seats. So actually, IMHO, I most certainly do pay for the seat."

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but you have a job that requires a significant amount of travel, therefore, you are required to spend time in an airplane seat. You are paid a salary for that job, ergo - you are paid, in part, to sit on a plane and fly from place. Now maybe if you're forced to take red-eyes or if you're paid hourly only for time spent at a site or your office doing actual work, I can see your point. But if you receive a salary for a job that requires a lot of travel, then you are paid, in part, to put your butt on an airplane.

"I'm sorry that most of the people here are, as you say, just a bunch of WHINERS. But I guess US's tactic is WORKING. You'd be the PERFECT customer for them since, they have successfully convinced you to lower your expectations of the US First Class service...and shifted your attitude to that of "gratefulness" that US even gives you free upgrades."

I haven't lowered my expectations at all. When I show up at the airport with a paid coach fare, my expectations are that they are going to put me on a plane that gets me from point A to point B with all of the amenities that a coach fare entails. My elite status allows me to get bumped up to first class on many flights (but I do not have any grand sense of entitlement), and, yes, I'm glad to get the free upgrade and whatever little extra perks that entails - those which matter at all to me are: enough room to actually flip open my laptop and do some work, getting a pre-flight drink and having the option of free alcohol on those rare occasions when I actually do have something other than coffee or water during my flight. I more often than not skip the meal, and could care less what material my drinking cup is made out of.

"This is the ONLY carrier that I have seen that actually serves an INFERIOR meal service product in FIRST CLASS as compared with the COACH meals for sale that it offers. THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE."

I can agree with you there - although superiority of a meal may be a matter of personal preference. Again, I haven't paid much attention to this as I rarely eat the meals anyways (and a number of my fellow frequent travelers could probably do well to skip a meal or two themselves, imho). Given what FC is - they should at least give you the option of having one of those for-sale meals for free if what they have up front is not comparable in your view. And, again, there is a big difference between someone paying for that FC seat, an someone who gets it for free.

"For those of you who get "Free" upgrades and who "don't pay" for your tickets, you should just be happy that US has not reverted to an all coach style seating configuration and be greatful for the "freebies" that you are still getting."

Once again, you're getting something for free and then complaining about the quality not being up to snuff. Maybe you should have some gratitude that, even though you fly every week, you're not always going to be relegated to coach just because that's what you (or, in most cases, you company) is paying for. Your argument is akin to a welfare recipient complaining that their government issue cheese isn't imported.

" For those of you who do "Pay" for your First Class ticket and still decide to go with US...well you're just SOL....US doesn't really have FC anymore...just a premium coach section."

I can't take issue with that - if you're actually paying the $$$ for FC seats - you have all the right in the world to complain about the quality of...well...everything - but that's a whole different issue than what we've been discussing.

"Sorry, Tober138, I don't understand. So your boss, company, spouse, whomever, pays for your ticket. Somehow your service expectations are denigrated?"

Not at all - once again - my company is paying for a coach ticket and my expectations are those of any other coach passenger (at least any reasonable one) - getting from point A to point B safely and (reasonably) on time. If the airline then offers me service beyond coach (such as a free upgrade to FC) any services above and beyond those I paid for and expect are appreciated - chances are, I will be offered amenities beyond those in the coach cabin, so I'm not going to complain if my free scotch isn't a brand that's up to my liking or about the quality of the meal (why this meal issue is such an important issue is beyond me...well...I think I do understand, but I'm not getting into that here).

But in reading this - maybe the issue is that I just have different expectations than the rest of you. When I get on a plane - I just want to get where I'm going (and be able to get some work done if its a long flight). I don't really give a rat's behind about real glass cups, real silverware and all of the other little FC perks that a number of you seem to be so passionate about. So maybe its just me. Once again, if I was paying for FC (or maybe if I was just paying for all of my flights) - I'd care more.

"If your company pays for you and clients to attend the symphony and all the musicians play flat . . .that’s OK because you didn’t pay?"

Apples and oranges. That's like your company giving you and a client tickets to the company box at a sports arena and your home team plays crappy and gets the pants beat off of them. Entertainment and airline service are somewhat different animals. But then again, there is the old saying: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

"I'm own a professional service business and I can't imagine lowering my product because someone else pays."

Nor should you. But here we're talking about a situations where not only is someone else paying, the company in question is giving you more than you paid for. I don't know what you do for a living - but if a client orders 10 crates of widgets and you decide to send them an 11th box free for all of their business, they shouldn't complain because those in box #11 aren't the size, shape, color or quantity that they would have liked

"And BTW, I pay for my flights."

Then you have every right to *****, moan and complain about the service. But are you paying for FC or are you paying for coach? Because what you deserve is what you pay for.

I realize that some of my fellow frequent flyers believe that upgrades and special treatment are a god-given right since they fly so much, but that's never been my perspective. You're paying for a coach fare, that's what you deserve - if an airline is willing to give you some added benefits because of your status, you should be somewhat grateful, instead of acting like spoiled snob - and if you don't like the perks on your particular airline - use another one.

TomBascom

I think this sums up where, in my mind anyway, you're going wrong.

The airline isn't "giving" added benefits out of the goodness of their heart so that we'll be grateful.

The airline is dangling benefits (that don't cost nearly as much as you're implying with your "get what you pay for" comments) as a carrot in order to influence our purchasing decisions.

We're not whining because of an entitement mentality. We're observing that the contract has been broken and that the equation won't work this way. US can choose to listen and respond positively or they can ignore us and continue down this path as they see fit. If they really think that they can succesfully offer a product that is significantly inferior to an LCC at a price premium then one way or another they'll make a b-school case study.

nawlinsdoc

If any schmoe is paying for FULL F, they need to get a new travel agent. Anyone can buy a full Y or B and upgrade the ticket at the time of purchase using newly bought e-upgrades.

Anyhow, agreeing that F isn't what it used to be, if I had the $$$ to by flying paid F, I sure as heck wouldn't be flying US. As a matter of fact, if I had the $$$ to be flying paid F, I'd probably be using my private jet!

NeoOfTheCRS

Tober138,

This is the fallacy in your argument. Ever heard that there is no such thing as a free lunch?? That applies to US now more than ever.

US uses the complimentary upgrades as a tool to drive revenue. Here is how it works. You PAY for a ticket and they give you a carrott. (See Pavlov)

But now, the carrott US offers is a dirty, pen-marked, wilted, half-portion of what it once was.

As a result I've temporarily taken all of my business to UA. After reviewing US's pitiful Q3 results, I believe that I am not the only one who has opted to buy a better product.

TomBascom

Tell that to my wife. Or the kids.

In my various jobs travel as sometimes been an explicit requirement, sometimes not. There hasn't really been a correlation between the actual amount of travel and the nominal portion either.

But this crap about "you don't pay for it so don't complain about it" is crap. Whether I am personally out of pocket for the ticket or not there is a cost, to me, associated with the trip.

It is an implied bargin with the airlines and the employers. In exchange for me putting up with the employer being a cheapskate and the airline jerking me around I get miles and perks. That's what I've signed up for. If either party wants to change that then I'm happy to negotiate. My opening offer is "pay me for my time and you can have the miles and perks".

rd7242

And I don't know about you, but the only reason MY wife puts up with the travel is because of all the free/upgraded vacations we take

Tober138

No one forces you to eat the carrot. If you don't like it - take your business to someone with a better quality of carrot. (And by the way, Pavlov worked with meat, not carrots).

As for not being paid for time spent sitting in an airplane seat - quit your job and get another one.

SFnFlaGuy

When you're PAYING for COACH yes. But if I'm using my miles or even PAYING for E Certs to upgrade....that is NOT a "FREE" upgrade....I'm PAYING for FC...and should be entitled to FC service.


For you, FC is just better for the seats. But for me, PAYING for either Full FC, or even on a PAID upgrade with miles or certs entitles me to a decent meal and service in FC.

It will be very hard for you to identify with our outrage at these service cuts in FC since you only care about the seats and not the service. This is fine, to each his own.

But for me, FC is so much more than just the seats...but the service too!

If US finds it acceptable to reduce FC service to the new CRAP style fusion cuisine it is now serving, they should just then eliminate FC and go to an all coach configuration. Or, if they so desire, eliminate these "free" upgrades so they no longer have an excuse for providing such poor service to FC.

Or, better yet, have 3 classes of service: First, Upgraded First, and Coach.

Whether be you technically "PAID" for FC or not, it is not acceptable to reduce the service to such a level that FC is not worth calling FC anymore.

Once again, see my point above. You really can't identify with us if you rarely use the service that US is eliminating.

Just FYI, I'm 6ft and 160lbs workout 4x a week, in great shape, and still am growing....I need all the nourishment I can get and am entitled to.


" I'd appreciate it if you'd stop using the language, "getting something for free". It gets really ANNOYING after a while. Most of us here DON'T get the FC upgrade for free.

We PAY for it...either through monetary ways or through our loyalty and long term business with US Airways.

Even if it were "FREE", US, as I've stated before, doesn't have the right to make FC as crappy as it is just for this reason. Nothing these days is truly "FREE"...think about that more closely. We pay for things in life not just through cash, but in so many other ways...loyalty and the relationship that we've built with other people and the companies that we do business with.


Nope this IS the issue that we're discussing. We DO PAY for the FC service and this is where your premise is TOTALLY flawed. It doesn't MATTER whether or not someone PAID for the FC service...FC is FC....why call it FC if the service is actually at the same, or even below Coach Class Service?

I didn't see anything on the US Air website stating "If everyone is on a Full F ticket in FC, then you'd be served a decent FC multi-course meal with utensils and glassware. However, if FC is filled with upgrading free-loading so called "loyal" customers, we shall serve half of the IFC meal served in coach....[lesser quality substitues will be given based on availability]"


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SFnFlaGuy




[This message has been edited by SFnFlaGuy (edited 10-24-2003).]

TomBascom

Pay attention -- that's what the "whining" is all about. If it keeps up this way that's what people are saying they will do. Rather than calling it whining a good marketing person would see it as "customer feedback" and act accordingly.

You don't get it. I'm happy with the arrangement. (Or at least I was until the product became inferior to sitting backwards on a WN 737...) I'm just pointing out that you "it's not yours, you didn't pay for it" people are missing a fairly significant part of the equation. If you think I should suck it up and be happy with my "free ride" I'm just letting you know what it will take to achieve that.

monitor

I'm coming back to the subject of "First Class Sucks" having a bit of a disagreement with that proposition.

I am a Co platinum elite who today, for the first time in years, took a US mainline flight after using the DCA shuttle and the (shudder) ERJ service to the midwest a few times this year.

The airplane was a 757 with what appeared to be a similar mix of FC and coach seats to CO, except that the legroom in row 1 was a bit tighter. I found the seats to be of equal comfort, the restroom to be clean and well equipped (after I had informed the FA that the makeready crew had failed to supply the lav with paper towels), and the food service to be adequate for an 11AM lunch.

we were given the choice of a salad with chicken and walnuts or some sort of sandwich, took the salad and observed that it was about 1/3 the size of what we were accustomed to seeing on CO's South Florida runs (does US ever supply hot towels?, anything but paper napkins?) but they were tasty and adequate. The large cookie dessert was something in a package with a funny name and was not touched by either of us. Despite the size of the portions, the service was very friendly and prompt and after the lunch was removed a basket with an outstanding selection of snacks was brought out. When I asked if there were any peanuts, the FA said no, but handed me some packages of very tasty cashews.

All in all, despite the small portion of food and the mickeymouse service package it came in, we were satisfied enough that as long as we stock enough upgrade points, we will use this company's FC cabin again when flying to So Fla from PHL or DCA.

N674UW

Not on Florida flights...for me US F is generally pretty good except for the joke of a meal that they call In-flight cafe...the seats are fine and the f/a's normally very attentive and willing to help...I havent flown F on any other airline though so I cant really compare...

Glad you had a good experience with US though...

N674UW