A Warning Regarding Targeted Promotions
Oct 17, 2002, 7:58 am
#121
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Baltimore
Programs: US 1 Mar Plt Hertz PC
Posts: 696
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aks0516:
The pig squealing I hear is from a bunch of crooks who have consistently tried to beat the system, and are now being called on it. All the self-serving justifications aside, if you got when you shouldn't have, then give it back. Sharing targeted codes IS fraudulent; just because it is easy for you to do don't make it right. This gimmee gimmee mentality is way, way out of control.</font>
The pig squealing I hear is from a bunch of crooks who have consistently tried to beat the system, and are now being called on it. All the self-serving justifications aside, if you got when you shouldn't have, then give it back. Sharing targeted codes IS fraudulent; just because it is easy for you to do don't make it right. This gimmee gimmee mentality is way, way out of control.</font>
By the way EDS sends their love--since you guys just stiffed them for $69MM.
Oct 17, 2002, 3:16 pm
#123
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: BOS
Programs: JetBlue Mosaic, WN A List Preferred, Hyatt Globalest, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, IHG Spire
Posts: 3,966
Really, what kind of crack are they smoking in Fort Fumble? Can anyone site a business practices article, i.e. from a respectable business journal or magazine, that proposes and advances the idea that it makes sense to screw and piss off your customers? I was a business major undergrad (no MBA) but have never read any theory or suggestion that it makes sense to disenfranchise your customers, let alone your loyal one's in a bad economy. They need to be doing things that will encourage travel, and forget about the ideal of yester-year when they could sell more Y seats to a sizling .com economy that had more money than it knew what to do with.
Finally can anyone site another industry or type of company that has either considered or let alone put in to practice a strategy such as set forth in the first post of this thread? It seems that even household named name agencies, like the IRS, have rather recently made concertted efforts to be more customer centricly focussed. The majors really perhaps aught to be run out of business so that innovaters who take the customer experience more seriously thrive and survive, while those fixated on the past die off as the industry evolves.....survival of the fittest, etc. On a recent UA flight, they had on UA radio a guy talking about CEM (in lieu of CRM) which stands for customer experience management. The CEO of this company has written a book, do a search for customer experience management, and unlike CRM the premise of CEM is to always never take your customers for granted, constanly take feedback for improvement from the customers, and strive to "wow" your customers at evry "touch point" that they have with your business. How does it "wow" a customer if you now have to pay for standby, and receive vague threats (not any worse than a criminal) that miles will be taken away, etc. Why doesn't whatever executive(s) that dreamed this up post under their own name? And why does some mysterious employee of Randy bow to this extent to the airlines. I would have preferred Randy's operations just post what they heard, and put a statement that, we take no position on this and will let the community decide what it is worth or what you will do about it. Why is Randy getting in the business of doing the airlines dirty work? US Airways certainly has the capability to send an email to all DM members with their policy statements.
Finally of the population of DM members, what percentage actually go stay more than 5,000 miles out of this thread? Talk about having your priorities in dis array. Your losing customers and money, in Chatper 11, and you try to (week after week) dream up things that will offend your customers, and make them speak negatively about your carrier that probably already is not viewed favorably as a result of Chapter 11 by the average person who flies infrequently. Instead of using your customers as marketing partners, you do things to anger them, and perhaps make them discourage their personal and business associates from flying US. And all the while, you naively think that this will make more people buy Y fares. These bonuses have stimulated a handful of sales that you would have had no hope of getting otherwise, and they have filled seats that would have forever gone empty. And you capacity control the awards anyway, so what are you worried about? Maybe I should find that book on Customer Experience Management, and send it to Ben, Mike, and whomever else so they know "wowing" the customer is what will win them over.
Finally can anyone site another industry or type of company that has either considered or let alone put in to practice a strategy such as set forth in the first post of this thread? It seems that even household named name agencies, like the IRS, have rather recently made concertted efforts to be more customer centricly focussed. The majors really perhaps aught to be run out of business so that innovaters who take the customer experience more seriously thrive and survive, while those fixated on the past die off as the industry evolves.....survival of the fittest, etc. On a recent UA flight, they had on UA radio a guy talking about CEM (in lieu of CRM) which stands for customer experience management. The CEO of this company has written a book, do a search for customer experience management, and unlike CRM the premise of CEM is to always never take your customers for granted, constanly take feedback for improvement from the customers, and strive to "wow" your customers at evry "touch point" that they have with your business. How does it "wow" a customer if you now have to pay for standby, and receive vague threats (not any worse than a criminal) that miles will be taken away, etc. Why doesn't whatever executive(s) that dreamed this up post under their own name? And why does some mysterious employee of Randy bow to this extent to the airlines. I would have preferred Randy's operations just post what they heard, and put a statement that, we take no position on this and will let the community decide what it is worth or what you will do about it. Why is Randy getting in the business of doing the airlines dirty work? US Airways certainly has the capability to send an email to all DM members with their policy statements.
Finally of the population of DM members, what percentage actually go stay more than 5,000 miles out of this thread? Talk about having your priorities in dis array. Your losing customers and money, in Chatper 11, and you try to (week after week) dream up things that will offend your customers, and make them speak negatively about your carrier that probably already is not viewed favorably as a result of Chapter 11 by the average person who flies infrequently. Instead of using your customers as marketing partners, you do things to anger them, and perhaps make them discourage their personal and business associates from flying US. And all the while, you naively think that this will make more people buy Y fares. These bonuses have stimulated a handful of sales that you would have had no hope of getting otherwise, and they have filled seats that would have forever gone empty. And you capacity control the awards anyway, so what are you worried about? Maybe I should find that book on Customer Experience Management, and send it to Ben, Mike, and whomever else so they know "wowing" the customer is what will win them over.
Oct 17, 2002, 4:00 pm
#125
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 472
I think US Airways has a point in saying that we're not supposed to be getting bonus miles for bonuses we weren't targeted for. And I think most of us here in flyertalk agree that the answer to all of this is simply for US Airways to set up the registration system so it only allows enrollment that US Airways deems legitimate.
That being said, however, I cannot for the life of me understand the continuing foray into foolishness that the execs at US seem to enjoy. It really is mind boggling. I'm reading jetsetter's post above and he's right.
There was absolutely no reason whatsoever for US Airways management to start "going after" people's supposed "abuse or misuse" of marketing bonuses. All US had to do was silently change the system so it works the way they want it to work when you register. It accomplishes what they're trying to do, and it doesn't piss off their existing customers.
AN OPEN QUESTION TO US AIRWAYS EXECS WHO MAY BE LURKING:
Whether or not these purportedly "improperly obtained" miles remain in people's accounts or are taken away, there are some seriously poor decisions being made by US Airways executives. It really seems as though you're not thinking things through regarding consequences, ramifications, public opinion, and customer reaction before you go public with things. I can't believe you cannot see the short-sightedness of your methods. Can you please, in some form, perhaps another contact to House of Miles, or even a flyertalk chat, explain to us how you are coming up with your decisions on changes you want to make, and how you choose to implement those changes? Your loyal and regular customers are continuing to find more reasons to be less regular and less loyal because of your methods.
That being said, however, I cannot for the life of me understand the continuing foray into foolishness that the execs at US seem to enjoy. It really is mind boggling. I'm reading jetsetter's post above and he's right.
There was absolutely no reason whatsoever for US Airways management to start "going after" people's supposed "abuse or misuse" of marketing bonuses. All US had to do was silently change the system so it works the way they want it to work when you register. It accomplishes what they're trying to do, and it doesn't piss off their existing customers.
AN OPEN QUESTION TO US AIRWAYS EXECS WHO MAY BE LURKING:
Whether or not these purportedly "improperly obtained" miles remain in people's accounts or are taken away, there are some seriously poor decisions being made by US Airways executives. It really seems as though you're not thinking things through regarding consequences, ramifications, public opinion, and customer reaction before you go public with things. I can't believe you cannot see the short-sightedness of your methods. Can you please, in some form, perhaps another contact to House of Miles, or even a flyertalk chat, explain to us how you are coming up with your decisions on changes you want to make, and how you choose to implement those changes? Your loyal and regular customers are continuing to find more reasons to be less regular and less loyal because of your methods.
Oct 17, 2002, 5:39 pm
#126
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Programs: UA 2P, AA LT Gold, Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 3,159
Interesting. Just received an offer for double miles on NW in the snail mail. Includes flights and all partners; you get 500 miles just for signing up. Naturally I signed up. Then I tried to sign up my wife - within seconds I got this message:
We are sorry, the WorldPerks number entered is not eligible for this promotion. This offer was created specifically for the WorldPerks member who received the promotion and only the WorldPerks number listed on the promotion piece may be registered. The offer may not be transferred to other WorldPerks members.
Thank you for your interest and click here for other promotional opportunities.
Seems like USAirways web coders could stand to learn something from the fellows in MSP. Naaah, they're response is "Thank you for registering", "Push 1 to register for more bonus offers or *D to exit", send you emails congratulating you for registering, award the miles to entice you to buy more tix, then post anonymous messages through 3rd parties basically accusing their VFF's of being criminals.
Ya gotta wonder.
We are sorry, the WorldPerks number entered is not eligible for this promotion. This offer was created specifically for the WorldPerks member who received the promotion and only the WorldPerks number listed on the promotion piece may be registered. The offer may not be transferred to other WorldPerks members.
Thank you for your interest and click here for other promotional opportunities.
Seems like USAirways web coders could stand to learn something from the fellows in MSP. Naaah, they're response is "Thank you for registering", "Push 1 to register for more bonus offers or *D to exit", send you emails congratulating you for registering, award the miles to entice you to buy more tix, then post anonymous messages through 3rd parties basically accusing their VFF's of being criminals.
Ya gotta wonder.
Oct 17, 2002, 5:48 pm
#127
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: BOS
Programs: AA LTG EXP, HH Diamond
Posts: 3,419
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gardener:
[B response is "Thank you for registering", "Push 1 to register for more bonus offers or *D to exit[/B]</font>
[B response is "Thank you for registering", "Push 1 to register for more bonus offers or *D to exit[/B]</font>
So let me ask you this, hypothecialy speaking.. if I were to register for an "evil targeted promo" and it said the same thing.... is there any reason that I should not conclude from this that I was in fact preselected. After all I was told that I was registered.
Oct 17, 2002, 6:00 pm
#128
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greenfield, NH
Programs: US Airways Chairman's Preferred, NWA Gold, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,199
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by J0HN:
US should have just done what CO did: Let everyone keep their miles, and charge them double whenever they want to redeem an award.</font>
US should have just done what CO did: Let everyone keep their miles, and charge them double whenever they want to redeem an award.</font>
Seriously -- they had this problem, noticed it and made an issue of it with at least some people. What's the full story?
Oct 18, 2002, 10:37 pm
#129
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 19,523
How about the guy that was just told about the current generosity of US Airways program bonuses, was given a bunch of codes to enter, did so, was excepted into the promotion with a thank you, and then proceeded to purchase tickets with the full intension of switching some of his 200,000 miles plus annual flying over from another airline?
This person didn't know that they were targeted offers.
This person didn't know they weren't eligable.
This person didn't know that they weren't combinable.
Mister Happy Computer just said "You're in baby! Get out there and buy that ticket!"
How did this person commit fraud?
This person was very hesitant to move business over to US after the "no miles for low fares" fiasco.
This person should have smelled a rat.
This person should have known better.
This person will never give another dime to US Airways unless there is no other choice of carriers.
This person puts up with a lot of crud from his own favorite airline and keeps flying them. Because with all that airline's shortcomings, they at least don't seem to be purposefully screwing him.
But this? This is takes the cake.
These are examples of direct hostility and disrespect towards US Airway's best customers. The manner, tone and method of the communication and intent of management of US Airways is quite simply unbelieveable!
And I would be amazed if anyone would voluntarily want to maintain a relationship with this company, after seeing how they handle these situations and view their customers.
I would now only fly this airline if I absolutly had to.
US Airways...this person intends to fight for their miles as a matter of principle. But you'll never get another penny from them if they have any say over their travel plans, regardless of the outcome. So don't think you'll have to cave in for this guy's benefit in hopes of smoothing some ruffled feathers. Feel free to defend yourself and deny until the cows come home.
And congratulations on your lastest and greatest experiment in "Sales Prevention."
May it go down in Marketing history.
I know that this person considers their brief participation with US Airways as the shortest lived example of loyalty in history.
You had your chance to gain a very good customer. And you blew it.
This person didn't know that they were targeted offers.
This person didn't know they weren't eligable.
This person didn't know that they weren't combinable.
Mister Happy Computer just said "You're in baby! Get out there and buy that ticket!"
How did this person commit fraud?
This person was very hesitant to move business over to US after the "no miles for low fares" fiasco.
This person should have smelled a rat.
This person should have known better.
This person will never give another dime to US Airways unless there is no other choice of carriers.
This person puts up with a lot of crud from his own favorite airline and keeps flying them. Because with all that airline's shortcomings, they at least don't seem to be purposefully screwing him.
But this? This is takes the cake.
These are examples of direct hostility and disrespect towards US Airway's best customers. The manner, tone and method of the communication and intent of management of US Airways is quite simply unbelieveable!
And I would be amazed if anyone would voluntarily want to maintain a relationship with this company, after seeing how they handle these situations and view their customers.
I would now only fly this airline if I absolutly had to.
US Airways...this person intends to fight for their miles as a matter of principle. But you'll never get another penny from them if they have any say over their travel plans, regardless of the outcome. So don't think you'll have to cave in for this guy's benefit in hopes of smoothing some ruffled feathers. Feel free to defend yourself and deny until the cows come home.
And congratulations on your lastest and greatest experiment in "Sales Prevention."
May it go down in Marketing history.
I know that this person considers their brief participation with US Airways as the shortest lived example of loyalty in history.
You had your chance to gain a very good customer. And you blew it.
Oct 19, 2002, 4:51 am
#131
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,701
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Piegow:
Beware! All those who signed up for the Gay and Lesbian Bonus are about to have their sexual orientation investigated.</font>
Beware! All those who signed up for the Gay and Lesbian Bonus are about to have their sexual orientation investigated.</font>
"Bendover...this won't hurt at all"
Oct 19, 2002, 6:28 am
#132
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: FLL & PIT
Programs: Marriott Platinum for Life.
Posts: 1,235
Originally posted by Piegow:
Beware! All those who signed up for the Gay and Lesbian Bonus are about to have their sexual orientation investigated.
Oh I know I will enjoy proving this promotion!! I should get 100,000 or more miles though if I have to prove it on Ben!
Beware! All those who signed up for the Gay and Lesbian Bonus are about to have their sexual orientation investigated.
Oh I know I will enjoy proving this promotion!! I should get 100,000 or more miles though if I have to prove it on Ben!
Oct 19, 2002, 8:08 am
#133
Join Date: May 2000
Location: HH Gold, Marriott Gold, PC Plat, Emirates Silver
Posts: 2,679
I am the last to defend US but I must make one point.
If you read the postings US Airways never said the word "fraud". They only stated that people violated the terms and conditions of the offer (valid for addressee only). Yes, I agree they did not have procedures in place to enforce the offers...yadda, yadda, yadda... and the word violated is too strong.
It was flyertalk that said that we cannot commit fraud, buy/sell miles etc. as their part of their T&C.
Nobody said we committed fraud - just getting miles that were not part of the T&C of the offer.
I just hope they leave everyone's accounts alone and just clean up their IT shop.
If you read the postings US Airways never said the word "fraud". They only stated that people violated the terms and conditions of the offer (valid for addressee only). Yes, I agree they did not have procedures in place to enforce the offers...yadda, yadda, yadda... and the word violated is too strong.
It was flyertalk that said that we cannot commit fraud, buy/sell miles etc. as their part of their T&C.
Nobody said we committed fraud - just getting miles that were not part of the T&C of the offer.
I just hope they leave everyone's accounts alone and just clean up their IT shop.
Oct 19, 2002, 10:17 am
#134
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: LAS
Programs: SWA
Posts: 1,320
I must admit, I have been right there with the rest of you (us) cockroaches, feasting on the bounty of miles, and jumping on the low fares to make status and bump up our status, and engaging in the insane practice of "milage runs".
But, I have to say to all of us, hold the phone.
When Ben made a complete a** of himself with his mismarketing plan, we jumpted on him faster than e-mail at 3:00AM.
Maybe we are a little too primed to jump again. It has been said here before, and bears repeating.
WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM US AIRWAYS.
Everything we have heard comes via a third unidentified party, relaying information from another unidentified party.
Maybe this is how US wants to drop a hint. Great. Hint taken. They have made their internal change (maybe) and updated the phone system (halfway).
Until anyone can come back and demostrate the REMOVAL of miles, this is just a stupid way to drop a hint. No fingerprints, no liability. How many of us have not had miles from one promo or another not post?
Anyone here get less miles than they deserved (going by the book) on any flights recently. I think not. How can we complain about not getting that last few thousand miles for a flight when we received over 35,000 miles for a transcon ($240) and over 15,000 for a east coast flight under $150.
Read the pamphlet in the seatback in front of you:
In case of emergency, put the mask on AND TAKE A COUPLE OF DEEP BREATHS.
Let's make sure there is a fight to fight.
But, I have to say to all of us, hold the phone.
When Ben made a complete a** of himself with his mismarketing plan, we jumpted on him faster than e-mail at 3:00AM.
Maybe we are a little too primed to jump again. It has been said here before, and bears repeating.
WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM US AIRWAYS.
Everything we have heard comes via a third unidentified party, relaying information from another unidentified party.
Maybe this is how US wants to drop a hint. Great. Hint taken. They have made their internal change (maybe) and updated the phone system (halfway).
Until anyone can come back and demostrate the REMOVAL of miles, this is just a stupid way to drop a hint. No fingerprints, no liability. How many of us have not had miles from one promo or another not post?
Anyone here get less miles than they deserved (going by the book) on any flights recently. I think not. How can we complain about not getting that last few thousand miles for a flight when we received over 35,000 miles for a transcon ($240) and over 15,000 for a east coast flight under $150.
Read the pamphlet in the seatback in front of you:
In case of emergency, put the mask on AND TAKE A COUPLE OF DEEP BREATHS.
Let's make sure there is a fight to fight.
Oct 19, 2002, 12:08 pm
#135
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greenfield, NH
Programs: US Airways Chairman's Preferred, NWA Gold, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,199
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by irabk:
...WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM US AIRWAYS.
Everything we have heard comes via a third unidentified party, relaying information from another unidentified party...
</font>
...WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM US AIRWAYS.
Everything we have heard comes via a third unidentified party, relaying information from another unidentified party...
</font>
I've got to admit I was rather taken aback by House Of Miles implication of "fraud". The bonus code thread has always had a very prominent note regarding eligibility and "the rules".
I've always viewed it as a nice consolidated list of bonuses that helps me not have to keep every scrap of paper or e-mail that US sends. If I'm heading out on a trip to a location I haven't been to for a while the first thing I do is check for a special bonus to nearby airports. You'd think that that is exactly the sort of activity that US wants us to engage in...