mre5765

Perhaps you are petite.

pdx1M

Two words: seat pitch. Or if you prefer economy plus.

janehoya

And benefit in which way from it?

While in a pinch we will redeem miles for C award tickets on UA we absolutely refuse to do so for F class after our one-and-only experience in UA F.

I am only 5'6" and agree that LH Y is hell.

mbarreto

+1

E+ and Economy Comfort (DL) have ruined Y for me. (though LH feel specially cramped)

mre5765

irrops, forcing open inventory for awards, forcing upgrades from Y awards to J.

If I was spending enough on J to be GS, I would go 100% UA.

Fair enough. As noted above with GS, your miles on J awards will go father because you can book Y and fly J.

MrMan

Mitchmu,

Did you ever get a resolution with UA on this?

FlyWorld

Folks,

For those of you who are interested in following, here is an update. In chronological order.

I want to protect the privacy of everyone I have communicated with outside of this thread, so I'm not going to mention names or titles, and I'm also not going to provide specific details about interactions that happen with any UA employee who reached out to me in an effort to help. I believe there is an expectation of privacy in such cases, and therefore intend to protect that. I will, however, summarize such interactions in the spirit of providing an update and accounting of what's transpired. This applies to what's happened so far, and what happens in the future.

1. Flight from IAH-PTY, no trouble. Our seats on that segment were stripped from us, for reasons that were never explained, but we were able to fight for them at SFO, and they were honored at IAH.

2. As a result of this thread, several UA employees wrote to me. One of them offered some perspective on what happened. Another one told me that it "got the attention" of some people at UA, and in particular, someone was looking at the comments about TSA. I replied to ask if anything besides that point was getting attention, and had no response. A third employee gave me the name of an executive to contact.

3. I sent an email to three executives at UA which summarized the situation. I included a file that was essentially the same as post #1 here, and included the ticket receipt to make clear what the starting point was. One of them responded to me in 20 minutes and has been very helpful subsequently. Another one responded about a week later, and invited me to call him to discuss. I've just been home a couple days now, so have not yet had a chance to follow up on that. The third one didn't respond. And, 1kvoice was copied on that email. No response from them.

4. On Jan 22, I got an email from the "DOT Specialist" at UA Customer Care. It was more thoughtful than much of the useless boilerplate crap that comes from the various customer care desks, but still fell far short of explaining what happened. It acknowledged a downgrade and said "... based on the fare paid, it was necessary to downgrade you and your traveling companion to Economy Class." That letter promised a $500 voucher for each of us, and the voucher was given by email a few days later.

5. On the same day, I replied, and I asked these 5 questions:

1. Were all 8 pax in F truly on paid F fares that were higher than ours?
2. The mobile app said that 2 pax were upgraded to F on that flight. Why did it say that?
3. Is status taken into consideration or is it only fare class when deciding who to downgrade?
4. Why was I told to sign a piece of paper saying that I volunteered to be downgraded or denied boarding?
5. Why did they strip us of our seats from iah to pty?

6. There has been no response to those questions. Nothing at all. A key question is raised for me by the statement that downgrade is determined by fare class. Is status taken into account? Or, is it only fare class? The first question is whether or not all 8 pax on that flight were actually paying > Z. The second question is, if so, were they all 1K and above? If the downgrade had to happen, and if all 8 pax were 1K or higher, and if all of them paid > Z, then choosing us at the Z level seems like the most equitable thing to do. It's hard for me to believe all these statements can be true. And, if a 1K means nothing, and fare class is the only factor, then what's the point of being 1K? Yet again. I expect that 1K status ought to provide priority in a case like this.

7. I still have not received any credit as promised for the fare class difference from Z to what I hope will be lowest economy fare at time of booking.

8. For reasons I cannot fathom, our single PNR was split into two PNRs. As a result of this, on the return, I was upgraded IAH-SFO (sUA BTW) but my companion was left alone in Y. I emailed the executive mentioned above, who arranged for that situation to be rectified. In that dialog, I asked a question that's been driving me crazy for a long time: How is it possible to upgrade with a companion or stay in Y with the companion and stop this splitting? No answer was given to that question.

9. 24 hours before departure, I checked in online. But, my companion could not check-in online. SHARES threw up an error message: "We are unable to complete the check-in process as a valid ticket coupon cannot be found. Please contact a United representative at 1-800-300-1547 for assistance." Once again, I emailed the executive mentioned above, and they solved it internally somehow.

10. After T-24, I was upgraded on sCO PTY-IAH, but again, my companion was left alone in Y. There wasn't enough time to deal with this when I found out, so we left it as-is. It's worth noting that this is only the second time in two years that I've ever cleared an upgrade on to sCO equipment.

11. At PTY, there is a pre-check area, where you have to match your name on passport to a printed list. My companion, who couldn't check in, wasn't on that list. So, they wouldn't let her through. After a brief effort, they just waved us on anyway.

12. At check-in, we inquired and were told that there were 4 unsold and open seats in F and that my companion was #1 on the WL and that the price to UG at the counter was > $700 just for that segment so the agent advised us to stay on the WL but said he could not clear the UG himself. My companion agreed to play the lottery with those odds.

13. In the UA lounge at PTY, I got online, and checked the wait-list using the mobile application. It showed her as #1 on the WL and said that 19 seats were booked and 19 seats were checked in and 1 seat was remaining in F (from 20 available). I am curious as to how one can reconcile the fact that the check-in agent said there were 4 seats open and, then, 30 minutes later, when I checked, the application said there was 1 seat available. The only reasonable explanation would be that 3 people walked up and paid for F upgrades or paid for F tickets in the 30 prior minutes. Possible. The other explanation would be that the check-in agent didn't know what he was doing or that there was yet another "glitch" in SHARES data.

14. Incidentally, the UA lounge at PTY is the most pathetic and filthy lounge I've ever experienced anywhere in the system. It looked like it had never been cleaned. There was so much junk on our table, and no place to put it, that I had to resort to piling up the cups and stuff on the floor around us. The internet was the slowest and least reliable I have encountered at any UA club. For all the complaining about proper UA clubs, this one makes them look luxurious.

15. At the gate, I asked the gate agent if he could process my companion's UG (about 40 minutes before scheduled take-off), and he said "yes" then, while that was happening, another woman appeared to be asking for an UG in spanish, talking to the other gate agent, and then the gate agent I was talking with looked at the other agent and waved our boarding pass in front of her to explain that we were present and requesting our UG to be processed. As far as I know, my companion was still #1 on the list. I don't know how to interpret what happened at that juncture, but the vibe was strange. It felt like the other woman was trying to talk her way into a UG and it seemed like the agent I was talking with was trying to stop that process by showing that we were entitled to any available UG and that we were physically present. So, then, the other woman snapped at the guy who said he would process our UG request and said that she could not issue the UG until 20 minutes before departure because someone else bought that last remaining seat and she needed to see if that person was going to show up. So, once again, a statement that doesn't make logical sense, and that doesn't match what SHARES was showing. I know for a fact that SHARES said there was 1 open seat at 50 minutes before departure. So, for this woman's statement to be true, someone would have had to had purchased that last seat within the last 10 minutes, and then would have had a very short time to get through security and to the gate and could barely have made the cutoffs. Possible? Yes. Likely, I'm not sure. It felt like I was being lied to, yet again. Clearly, there was no point fighting, so I just accepted what felt like a lie, and went through the extra security screening process that was set up at the gate.

16. When they started boarding, we waited near the gate, then we were told to get on the plane. The gate agent said she would come on the aircraft and get my companion if the UG was able to be processed. I knew from looking at the seat map that the last available seat was 5B, so I kept an eye on that seat to see what ended up happening with it. About 10 minutes before door closing, both of the gate agents boarded the aircraft and started performing a variety of functions, such as closing the overhead cabin doors and helping the FAs with pre-departure preparations. At that time, I made eye contact with the female gate agent, and she asked me if my companion had been upgraded. I said, no, she had not been upgraded. The gate agent rolled her eyes and told me that she had told the male gate agent to pull my companion and upgrade her 15 minutes ago. Then, she went to the back, and pulled her up herself. After that, she told me that the other guy simply "forgot" to upgrade her.

This gave me some insight into how things are done the "CO way". If I had not been so on top of things through the entire process, and made a point of connecting with that agent when I saw her on the aircraft, there is little doubt in my mind that my companion would not have been upgraded, and that the flight would have gone out with seat 5B empty, because all of this happened just a few minutes before push-back, and it doesn't seem reasonable to assume the guy who "forgot" to upgrade her would suddenly have "remembered" in the following few minutes if I had not made contact with the agent proactively. We have seen a lot of posts since 3/3 about planes going out with at least 1 seat in F empty on CPU eligible flights, and I think this experience is instructive in understanding what might be happening on those flights.

17. An agent met us and greeted us upon arrival at SFO, apologized for the situation, and asked if there was anything we needed help with. It was an awesome and very kind gesture, which I appreciated very much.

18. We paid for the UG on the return with 2 GPUs that were expiring Jan 31. Those have not been deducted from my account. Finally, a SHARES error in my favor! But, as they expire in 28 hours, it's a hollow victory.

So, where things stand, and what's next:

1. I'm assuming that I'll never hear back from the DOT Specialist but will let you know if I do.

2. I have the next step to call one of the UA executives who offered to have a conversation with me.

3. I am working with the other UA executive to set up an in-person meeting to discuss all of this, plus my overall experience.

Some folks have asked what I want. I don't have a list of demands, but some answers to that question include:

1. I am not asking for cash. I am satisfied with the financial compensation, particularly if the downgrade was legitimate. If they want to throw more cash at me, that's cool, but it's not what this is about. It never has been.

2. I want to know if my account has been flagged for elimination. It's a question I've had for a long time since it seems my post-takeover experience is so much worse than average. There's no point sticking around if some finance intern pushed through model that decided I should be fired as a customer. The fact that two executives have presumably looked at my account and are willing to talk with me suggests this is not the case, because if it were the case, they'd have just ignored my email.

3. A complete and clear explanation for what happened, particularly a response to the questions I wrote to the DOT specialist. Fundamentally, it's hard for me to understand how a 1K on a Z fare can be the lowest person out of 8 pax on an aircraft. Not impossible, but not something I am willing to just assume on my own.

4. A robust conversation about the topic of upgrades. Including discussion of my abysmal UG rate since the takeover and a chat about the TOD practices and the impact that those and other shenanigans have had on 1Ks.

And, finally, help understanding if there's any reason at all to stay with UA. Because, I just can't continue putting this much time and energy into each trip and dealing with issues to this extent.

flyingmusicianlax

Had this happen to me on a redeye LAX-IAD last week

Subset numbers one through three are very good questions. Number four seems like it may have been a panicking gate agent (I had one of these when I got downgraded ex-CLE two weeks back).

This is the nail on the head and is, IMHO, one of the primary differences between pre-3/3 UA and post 3/3 UA. Pre 3/3, people would see the 1K on your reservation or boarding pass and go out of their way to make sure your needs were met. Post-3/3, not so much (sometimes yes, but mostly no).

I hope they make things right regarding this soon. You are absolutely owed a cash refund for the difference.

Yikes

Happened on my flight today - was seated in 2K on a 762 LAX-IAH (subbed for a 788), with 2L empty. Right before the door closed, a rather surprised and happy-looking gentleman appeared and took 2L. Last minute, on-the-plane upgrade. Used to happen more frequently on sCO flights.

Please let us know how it goes! This is thrilling to read, as well as important info for future use. Thanks for investing the time in keeping us all informed ^^^

fieldeng

mitchmu,
WOW. It seems the amount of effort you put into this is more about the point rather than the money because you have really spent more of your valuable time than most. Maybe that's UA's goal? Most would have let it go by now. In your case, I think you have a legitimate case and reason here.

JesterJarett

This whole situation is just baffling to me. I hope I never experience what the OP has gone through. Please keep us apprised of any developments with UA's exec team.

FlyWorld

Yes, it's about the point and a desire to understand.

It looks like you are GS. I think as a GS, you're somewhat shielded from this nonsense by a layer of staff who are invisibly monitoring and fixing things before you are even aware that a problem existed. Naturally, they can't afford to do that for everyone. ;-(

Beerman92

Thanks for the update mitchmu. My responses are not meant to offend or blame you.

1) You should have stopped flying, or at least booked away from, United some time ago. The basic customer service you reasonably expect has been a crapshoot since Q1 of last year.

2) There is definitely some ill-advised policy about not processing upgrades until after boarding. Most experienced GAs have a "feel" for a flight and know when to start clearing the list one by one. I had almost the exact same experience as you on a recent flight where I was number 2 on the list. A GA called up #1 about 5 minutes before boarding. When he went to tell the pax they got the UG a supervisor whispered in his ear to wait. I just boarded since it was short flight. The same GA who was trying to UG #1 came onboard and got me to move me to F after boarding. The supervisor created a worse customer experience. The GA improved the customer experience despite the supervisor. An organization has some serious customer service issues when the front line staff has to rescue customers from poor supervisor execution.

3) I'm not in complete agreement with your paranoia about "big brother" having it in for you but I will say you are closer to the mark than you might realize. I posted this early last year but the current CEO of United demands and polices a zero social media policy for all employees. Do people get fired every day for this? No. Are there people on the payroll of United monitoring employees non-work related communications? Absolutely. The prior CEO of United could give a rats behind what was being said about him or his airline outside of official channels. This strange insecurity (the only way I can describe it) is very common in the corporate world. If you are a capable CEO and believe in your management abilities you spend your time leading. Not trying to find fake enemies. This spills over into the customer service area where somehow this company I no longer recognize called United thinks they should publicly try to "intimidate" customers. Really? If an airline customer is unprofitable, then figure out a way to get them to not buy your product. Don't push out a culture of "if you complain you will be blacklisted". Its really quite pathetic.

For this last point, I can't get into specifics but suffice it to say that despite United's lagging financial performance last year, and the public messaging that they want customer service to improve, they just internally adopted yet another policing policy targeting HVFs.

anc-ord772

Man on a mission. I'm liking this channel.

What the wha...

FlyWorld

Are you suggesting that you think UA might have blacklisted me? Or, are you describing a belief/observation that they have a culture of blacklisting employees based on what they do in social media? Unclear how your comment ties to the topic here?

I haven't experienced intimidation from UA.

And, what do you mean about another policy targeting HVFs? I realize you can't divulge specifics, but, c'mon, tell us something directional that explains what you're talking about.

bocastephen

I'm totally lost here - are you suggesting (or have evidence of) a policy that United employees are to take actions which specifically drive away high value customers?