Upgrade questions - two people on one pnr

 
Old Jul 13, 2008, 2:53 am
  #1  
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Upgrade questions - two people on one pnr

I have an upcoming trip with the mrs. I am a 1k and he is prm ex. Right now the flight about 3 weeks out still has not cleared. Looks like plenty of space but as I have read on FT UA is holding back processing upgrades later than before.

If we are on one pnr will they upgrade us both or could one of us clear before the other?

I understand that up until day of it is first on the upgrade list first off. However day of goes to status. If this is the case if it goes to the day of could last minute 1k's upgrading with miles go ahead of my wife who I upgraded with a SWU months in advance?

One of the biggest benefits of the SWU is advance clearing. If it does not clear ahead of time but would clear on day of can I switch to upgrading with miles? I know they don't like you to get advance clearing and then try to switch to an upgrade instrument that does not provide for advanced clearing. Any thoughts or recommendations?
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 3:13 am
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You should call immediately and split the PNR. Read this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=773732

or my reply in this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=826961

To answer your later questions, you can read this thread on upgrade waitlist order:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forums/show....php?p=7421065

but the bottom line is that, yes, once the flight goes to gate control around four hours before the flight, a 1K will trump a 1P on the upgrade waitlist no matter what the instrument.

I'm not sure why you'd want to switch to miles at this point. First, you may not be able to, because only Y/B/M/H fares are upgradeable with miles. Second, if you were on this fare basis, you could have used miles to begin with, and there would be no difference between using an SWU or miles when it comes to clearing the waitlist if you're using a 1K's miles. Mileage upgrades are just as confirmable as SWUs, and for a 1K's miles the clearance priority is the same.

Good luck! And next time, if you're going to be waitlisted, don't link your PNRs!
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 5:20 am
  #3  
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So called UA and they cannot split it

I have a short LH leg each direction and UA says cannot split PNR and not cancel the LH legs. So I guess I am screwed. I hope someone in inventory management opens up a 2 seats at a time. I would hate to think that booking two tickets on one PNR will mean that we miss the upgrades.

Any other ways to increase my chances?
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 7:04 am
  #4  
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Originally Posted by SFOAmdam
I have a short LH leg each direction and UA says cannot split PNR and not cancel the LH legs. So I guess I am screwed. I hope someone in inventory management opens up a 2 seats at a time. I would hate to think that booking two tickets on one PNR will mean that we miss the upgrades.

Any other ways to increase my chances?
I recommend the FT mantra of say thank you, hang up and call again. It's likely another agent can do what that one was unable to. I've had that experience where the 1K desk rep wasn't willing, but a friend (1P) called on their number and had it split in minutes. YMMV on this one.
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 11:19 am
  #5  
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the call back worked

I called again and this agent could do it in 30 seconds. Of course this was after him warning me that it would reduce my wife's chance of an upgrade as she would go on her own status now. I am going with the FT wisdom here and hoping we both clear.

I am amazed that you can call UA three times and probably get 4 different answers to any question.
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 7:44 pm
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i would make sure that the records are cross referenced and appropriately documented that u are travelling together so that she can ride on ur status until the flight goes into DM. Then she is on her own.
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 9:40 pm
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Originally Posted by panjfj
i would make sure that the records are cross referenced and appropriately documented that u are travelling together so that she can ride on ur status until the flight goes into DM. Then she is on her own.
She is already on the priority (PA) waitlist, since she upgraded with an SWU. It's the method of upgrading, not the status of the upgraded passenger before it goes to the gate. If they clear before the gate, he will clear first, then she will clear next, if upgrades are released one at a time.

Feel free to cross-reference, but it won't make a difference on the upgrade waitlist.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 4:14 am
  #8  
 
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I find this issue very confusing. I have been told by someone who travels extensively with UA (and who was told by UA management) that IM will not pass 2 people on 1 pnr on the w/list if there is only 1 NC seat, until DM day of flight, where the clearing is then based on status, fare paid and time on w/list.

What supposedly happens is that NC1 will sit there and not be given out to single pnr pax on w/list below until the 2 people (in one pnr) are cleared (prior to DM).

I am in this exact situation, we are first on the w/list 2 pax (myself 2P and Mini DG 3P) on one pnr for 2 trancons. There is NC=1. So far I have not split pnr - staying put to see what happens . I have been on the list since early May for an Oct flight. There is still NC=1, so no one has skipped over us as yet.

Last year, similar situation, I chose to split pnrs based on advice here on FT. It worked out fine but we were of the same status last year, this year Mini DG took a dive in status . This is the main reason I have not split, I think she may need my status help if it goes to DM. Sitting in separate cabins is not an option due to her age.

It seems this issue is one that there is confusion and disagreement on the boards. It would be great to get some clarification (if that is at all possible ).

NB: Only one of the two waitlisted transcons actually has NC1, the other has NC=0. If they both had NC1, I would split ASAP, put Mini DG in the avail NC and let me wait it out with higher status. But that wont solve the sep cabin issue if I dont clear .

Last edited by Downunder girl; Jul 14, 2008 at 4:20 am Reason: Clarification
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 4:43 am
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Originally Posted by panjfj
i would make sure that the records are cross referenced and appropriately documented that u are travelling together so that she can ride on ur status until the flight goes into DM. Then she is on her own.
Never works - cross references are only to comfort the mind of the traveler - the agents have no time to read "the little silly bits in there".
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 8:53 am
  #10  
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We always split our records to speed up the upgrade process. Often, one of us will clear immediately once the recordis split. For some strange reason, I always seem to clear before Hunki, but he always clears before the flight. We are both 1ks.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 9:01 am
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Originally Posted by Downunder girl
I find this issue very confusing. I have been told by someone who travels extensively with UA (and who was told by UA management) that IM will not pass 2 people on 1 pnr on the w/list if there is only 1 NC seat, until DM day of flight, where the clearing is then based on status, fare paid and time on w/list.

What supposedly happens is that NC1 will sit there and not be given out to single pnr pax on w/list below until the 2 people (in one pnr) are cleared (prior to DM).
Actually, I think the general FT wisdom from the threads above is that you will be passed over. You can conduct an experiment if you like and see if NC1 drops to NC0. Of course, if it does, it may just be because they're zeroing out inventory, if it doesn't, it may just be because no one else ever joins the waitlist, so it's nowhere near a confirmatory experiment.

Originally Posted by Downunder girl
Last year, similar situation, I chose to split pnrs based on advice here on FT. It worked out fine but we were of the same status last year, this year Mini DG took a dive in status . This is the main reason I have not split, I think she may need my status help if it goes to DM. Sitting in separate cabins is not an option due to her age.
No one gets anyone else's help on the DM, according to FT wisdom, so that's no reason to keep the PNRs together. On the DM, it's every person for him or herself. I think you should split. Since both of you have status, both of you can both keep your seats in E+.

Once it goes to the DM, you still have a danger of clearing without her, whether or not you split, though you could probably get a sympathetic gate agent who is willing to keep an eye on the pairing. If separate cabins are a no-go, it would depend how far out the flight is, how many seats are available, how many flights are spoken for, the day of the week, the time of day, and the usual factors for upgrade clearance estimation.

Good luck!
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 10:20 am
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Originally Posted by fadeforward
Actually, I think the general FT wisdom from the threads above is that you will be passed over. You can conduct an experiment if you like and see if NC1 drops to NC0. Of course, if it does, it may just be because they're zeroing out inventory, if it doesn't, it may just be because no one else ever joins the waitlist, so it's nowhere near a confirmatory experiment.
I did this experiment a few times - with a negative result. Bought a three pax PNR which - due to the lack of instruments from a single account - we split into 1 and 2 pax PNRs. As most segments had NC2 or better, we applied the 2 pax first and the single pax immediately afterward. The two NC1 segments stayed NC1 with none of us clearing.
Originally Posted by Downunder girl
..What supposedly happens is that NC1 will sit there and not be given out to single pnr pax on w/list below until the 2 people (in one pnr) are cleared (prior to DM)..
Which is in strong support that the UA PA WL system cannot jump pax, it is a simple FIFO mechanism that processes input linearly.

Not once have I encountered a situation where the PA jumps. And until this July the agents gladly informed us that we three on an NC2 flight were at the top of the WL with another 8 pax waitlisted.

But some people made different experiences in that matter. And the united.com patchware is in constant motion. So one observation does not guarantee that it can be repeated, I concede.

Last, I would be reluctant for a split in any case - a 1K is not a really high status for UA. If you are on a GS infested route, then 1Ks get bounced easily. And then you have your companion in the front and you have no seat blocking while stuck there.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 11:26 am
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Originally Posted by weero
Which is in strong support that the UA PA WL system cannot jump pax, it is a simple FIFO mechanism that processes input linearly.

Not once have I encountered a situation where the PA jumps. And until this July the agents gladly informed us that we three on an NC2 flight were at the top of the WL with another 8 pax waitlisted.
I would love to hear other people's experiences with this. It certainly goes against what I perceive to be the conventional wisdom on FT. Of course, I have no problem with the system as you are describing it. It seems the most fair, in any case. It's not as if the 8 pax are being held back; you were first, after all.

There are only two problems. The first is that those of us scouting award inventory might see false NC availability, e.g., NC1 but there are two people at the top of a long waitlist, so our upgrades wouldn't clear immediately.

Second, if there were some short-sighted IM decision rule that inhibits NC release if there is NC availability, e.g., NC2, so IM decides not to release seats, but in fact a party of 3 is blocking NC clearance.

Originally Posted by weero
Last, I would be reluctant for a split in any case - a 1K is not a really high status for UA. If you are on a GS infested route, then 1Ks get bounced easily. And then you have your companion in the front and you have no seat blocking while stuck there.
I am confused about your reasoning here. They both have E+ access. There is no middle-seat blocking for elites. I'm not sure what advantage you're referring to when it comes to linked PNRs.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 12:26 pm
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Originally Posted by fadeforward
..There are only two problems. The first is that those of us scouting award inventory might see false NC availability, e.g., NC1 but there are two people at the top of a long waitlist, so our upgrades wouldn't clear immediately..
Yes that is the main problem I see with that too and especially with how it happened to DUG: NC should go to zero when 2 pax are WLed for an NC1 segment which they did for us but with a significant delay (more than a few hours IRRC).

Otherwise it would not be a waitlist case, I concede: NC1 is for grabs when you need one seat.

Originally Posted by fadeforward
..I am confused about your reasoning here. They both have E+ access. There is no middle-seat blocking for elites. I'm not sure what advantage you're referring to when it comes to linked PNRs.
Fair enough - I refer to the case when not being split is the main incentive, and to some extent to your earlier objection, on which I have to elaborate:
Originally Posted by fadeforward
..No one gets anyone else's help on the DM, according to FT wisdom, so that's no reason to keep the PNRs together. On the DM, it's every person for him or herself...
This is indeed the majority experience on FT. And there are stations which handle this consistently exactly like that - SYD is one of them. But then there are ports where the 'inheritance of power' holds absolutely, such as ZRH or FRA where I+GM beat our 1P+1P on the DM, or I+2P beat 1P.
SIN and HKG mostly observe it ... so it's a gamble ... but with a strong nonzero average.
Once it goes to the DM, you still have a danger of clearing without her, whether or not you split, though you could probably get a sympathetic gate agent who is willing to keep an eye on the pairing.
There is one major difference: if on a single PNR, you can turn down a partial upgrade, even if your original fare bucket is no longer available. You can insist on the non-spit policy. That reason alone is base enough for me never to split PNRs as then we can stay together and save the instrument.
But that's matter of taste.

Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Jul 14, 2008 at 2:10 pm Reason: consecutive posts merged
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 12:47 pm
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Originally Posted by Downunder girl
I find this issue very confusing. I have been told by someone who travels extensively with UA (and who was told by UA management) that IM will not pass 2 people on 1 pnr on the w/list if there is only 1 NC seat, until DM day of flight, where the clearing is then based on status, fare paid and time on w/list.

<snip>

I have been on the list since early May for an Oct flight. There is still NC=1, so no one has skipped over us as yet.

<snip>

It seems this issue is one that there is confusion and disagreement on the boards. It would be great to get some clarification (if that is at all possible ).
I've been told (and have it in writing) from a reservations manager the very opposite to what your friend was told about being skipped over. Here's a snippet of what the UA reservations manager wrote me:

... By booking your reservation together on 1 record, all members of the party have the privilege of having the highest priority waitlist status due to your 1K level, however if 1 upgrade seat becomes available, the system will "pass" your party of 2 reservation and clear a reservation that has 1 passenger.
Anyway ...interesting that no one's skipped you yet. I'd love to hear if it continues that way, since yes, there does seem to be so many conflicting answers to this, here and at UA.
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