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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by B747-437B: Its all the same thing - namely rules being broken. If you think its ok when they are broken to benefit you, but scream loudly when they benefit someone else then you are a hypocrite of the highest order. [This message has been edited by B747-437B (edited 07-04-2002).]</font> |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by B747-437B: "Random acts of kindness" create unreasonable expectations which can not be met and lead to a further erosion of brand equity over time. The Captain is not authorized to make an operational upgrade under the circumstances mentioned above, and hence should be disciplined. Pilots should stick to doing what they are trained to do and do well, and not try to dabble in marketing and customer service.</font> The Captain's "Random Act of Kindness" is something that most passengers would appreciate...and not necessarily come to expect in the future. One of the problems with business today (IMHO) is that more employees aren't "empowered" to do the right thing. If more exployees acted like owners (not managers, but owners) companies would be better off. Instead there are manuals, policies, procedures and all sorts of roadblocks in front of the employee who wants to do the right thing. Isn't this really an example of customer service at its best? |
Hold on here - to all those people thinking that the "Random act of kindness" creates expectations that can't be met - the Captain upgraded 3 1P passengers - ie: those folks have flown AT LEAST 50k miles either last or this year, and perhaps far more over many years. Anyone who flies even half that amount has flown enough to know that upgrades don't happen every day, and to apprieciate the gesture for what it is.
As a 2P some years ago I got an upgrade on IAD-LHR and was surprised like crazy to get it. That doesn't mean the next time I flew that route that I expected it! I ponied up with my certs or whatever when I had them. Same will go with those upgraded 1P's. I think it was a good thing to do. Anyway, DEN-IAH - does it get a meal or just a snack? Perhaps just even nuts!! In which case UA isn't even wasting "valuable" F meals (ahem). Perhaps it shouldn't happen all the time, because that would be a bad thing, but if a Captain wants to show a bit of initiative, then I'm all for it. ------------------ RichardMEL, UA 1K A Star Alliance Member. |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RichardMEL: Perhaps it shouldn't happen all the time, because that would be a bad thing</font> Its all the same thing - namely rules being broken. If you think its ok when they are broken to benefit you, but scream loudly when they benefit someone else then you are a hypocrite of the highest order. [This message has been edited by B747-437B (edited 07-04-2002).] |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">"Pilots should stick to doing what they are trained to do and do well, and not try to dabble in marketing and customer service."</font> I think you're off base on this one. In fact, I believe that flight officers can do marketing and customer service better than anyone at an airline. From an early age, we have been taught to look up to the guy with 4 stripes who sits at the pointy end of the plane. He's (and more recently, "she's") somehow "better" than we are, because he's been trained for many years to hold the lives of a couple hundred people in his hands, while remaining cool under all conditions. It's part of why we're so offended by scandals like the 2 AWA pilots. You don't see this level news coverage when a tractor-trailer driver or a bus driver drives drunk. We want our pilots to be heroes - to be smarter, better and have quicker reflexes than we, because flying is an unnatural act for human beings, and people require ultimate confidence in the guys (and gals) who lead us up and hopefully bring us back safely. When the "Captain" reaches out to make a gesture to a passenger, whether it's a smile upon disembarkation, a chat while walking through the cabin, a signed business card, or some upgrade, that gesture has more impact upon the passenger than 100 gestures from someone whose formal job description includes the word "marketing." It's no coincidence that Qantas has made John Travolta (a qualified 707 pilot) their "Ambassador-at-Large" for their new promotional kick. John Travolta Joins Qantas I can't count the number of times I've told the story about having a "conversation" with the Captain over Ch.9 on an early AM flight from OAK to ORD (I wrote notes up via the FA and he talked to me on Ch.9). Those things matter, and it's a big part of why I still travel UA, instead of flying their *A partners exclusively. I believe there is absolutely no downside to having the flight officers take an active interest in the welfare and comfort, not just safety of their passengers. <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Where do you draw the line then? The same people who say that it is a good thing for "random acts of kindness" to happen to them will be the first ones to jump down the same captain's throat when he upgrades his buddy Joe on the way to a fishing trip.</font> What's your axe to grind here? Greg [Edited to add QF link and make my post more appropriately gender-neutral] [This message has been edited by greg99 (edited 07-04-2002).] |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by B747-437B: Its all the same thing - namely rules being broken. If you think its ok when they are broken to benefit you, but scream loudly when they benefit someone else then you are a hypocrite of the highest order. [This message has been edited by B747-437B (edited 07-04-2002).]</font> Back when CO was pulling out of its dive, Gordon Bethune described a similar philosophy in his book From Worst to First. "Every company probably ought to burn their employee manual now and then - it is merely a repository of rules that fit certain situations, and those rules eventually spread far beyond their applicability and become calcified into dumb rote." As a CO elite at the time, the culture shift was noticeable as was the improved performance. (as an aside, I think it is time for CO to burn the books again). In my opinion, UA should perform more of these no to low cost kindnesses and not continue in its "dumb rote" course. In my evaluation, it looks like the following: Forgone revenue: Zero, the F seats were on the plane anyway and nobody was looking to purchase them or upgrade since that would have happened outside. Future Expectation: Zero as these were 1Ps, and as a previous poster mentioned, they know that this type of upgrade is an oddity rather than the rule. Disgruntled other pax: Limited as this thread indicates. If I had redeemed certs, miles, etc. I would not be unhappy that these folks were moved up gratis. I had the benefit of the bargain: a FC seat before the door was closing, and that is worth a lot to me. Goodwill: Priceless. I guess that we'll just disagree. But as a 1K, my first and continuing reaction to this would have been positive. CWPFLY |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">When the "Captain" reaches out to make a gesture to a passenger, whether it's a smile upon disembarkation, a chat while walking through the cabin, a signed business card, or some upgrade, that gesture has more impact upon the passenger than 100 gestures from someone whose formal job description includes the word "marketing." </font> ------------------ ~ Glen ~ |
[off topic]
KatW - please drop me a line (don't think I have your current e-mail address & would like to get back in touch) [/off topic] |
Although not for the same reasons, UA gate agents do upgrades for their best customers too (usually to clear space to fill up coach seats)...last week at DTW the gate agents moved about 4 of us up to First so they'd have 4 more coach seats available..I appreciated the upgrade (had not bothered with it since it was a short flight to ORD and my connected flight upgrade had cleared before I got to the airport) and will not be expecting to be upgraded on each flight in the future that I don't ue a 500-miler on..
Captain Wise did a good job creating more goodwill for UA at a time when they need it.. |
I think the captain was OK. Reminds me of the old business "3/30" rule, which is: if a business does a nice thing for someone, he/she tells 3 people. If the business does something nasty--the customer tells 30 people.
------------------ AAExecPlat; Lifetime AAirpass; 3MillMiles; UApremier-PassPlus |
B747-437B asks the question "Where do you draw the line?" - this is reasonable, but let's face it - even if Captain Wise did this on EVERY flight he was on (which in no way would this happen!) the chances are that he would ever be on the same plane with those same 1P's again is next to zero. The point is that it is essentially random. The Captain showed thoughtfulness in selecting 1P's to u/g (one assumes the 1K's-if any-were already in F!) - noting they were loyal customers, and also those less likely to play the "I got this last time" thing.
Has anyone considered that this small act, as noted by PremEx and reported here has actually done more for UA revenue (I think) than Capt. Wise could have dreamed. How many FT readers may read this thread? How many might tell their friends, or even perchance decide "Hmm, I won't give that next trip to the other guy, let's try UA again - seems like they're trying" - that is revenue positive to UA - even in a very small way. Back to the point of where do you draw the line - I think it is as in most situaitons - you'd need to use common sense. I doubt a 777 captain is going to come along, note 20 empty seats in a C cabin and do that for 20 pax. As someone else has said, the door was closed, so no further sales or upgrades were going to happen on that flight. It's Captain's discretion, and as I note above - many of us will remember this story even if it never happens to us, or we never have an experience like it in our time on UA - it's irrelevant. Should the Captain be involved in such things? Technically I suppose not, but remember once the door closes it's his/her ship. And let's not forget, when it's easy to abuse UA staffers for rudeness, prison matron manners, IAD 1K training, or whatever... it seems hard to recognise a good deed and just go with it. And let's hope some hothead at WHQ hasn't read this and had a go at Capt. Wise for his move, because from what I've heard from some sources, that would be just the kind of dumbass thing they'd pull - now THAT's revenue negative! ------------------ RichardMEL, UA 1K A Star Alliance Member. |
It's beneficial only if the person receiving the benefit doesn't expect it time and again. If he does, then it's created a level of expectations that cannot be met.
As long as the customer considers it a bonus, and doesn't expect it all the time, it's okay. If one of those guys -- just one -- says on his next flight, well, the captain moved me last time, why isn't that happening this time then it was a bad move. |
I'm surprised that someone hasn't mentioned that there may have been another motive for the captain's actions. Namely filling the front of the plane for security reasons - more passengers to assist and block any attempt to rush the cockpit.
John ------------------ From a kiwi who can fly! |
If he wants to upgrade you its his choice.
------------------ I'm on a plane I can't complain. ------------------- aa exec plat ,ua 1k,vs gold, starwood gold [This message has been edited by airpolo (edited 07-06-2002).] |
la·gniappe Pronunciation Key (ln-yp, lnyp)
n. Chiefly Southern Louisiana & Mississippi A small gift presented by a storeowner to a customer with the customer's purchase. An extra or unexpected gift or benefit. Lagniappe derives from New World Spanish la ñapa, “the gift,” and ultimately from Quechua yapay, “to give more.” The word came into the rich Creole dialect mixture of New Orleans and there acquired a French spelling. It is still used in the Gulf states, especially southern Louisiana, to denote a little bonus that a friendly shopkeeper might add to a purchase. By extension, it may mean “an extra or unexpected gift or benefit.” ------------------ Biggest Little 1K (in The Biggest Little City) In The World |
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