auh2o

This is probably a question for Mark (or another pilot) but I have been getting told recently - the last month or so - that they are no longer "able" to put sports on CH9. It is NBA playoffs and I usually give the AM station that I need and politely say something like "The Lakers start at 6:30PM PST and when we get about 150 miles out of LA, is it possible to put the game on CH9? It is on 570 AM." I used to have a 100% sucess rate with this, but lately pilots have been saying thay can't do it. I know the system can do it, so have the rules changed?

Thanks Mark or anyone.

J-

cnk

Could it be that it's just a big hassle? Flying at hundreds of miles per hour necessitates tuning in to new stations frequently. One more thing to demand attention from the pilots.

Mark Rogers

Actually they're right; some of the newer airplanes can't do it. Channel 9 is the audio from one of the observer (jumpseat) panels, so it's possible to put anything one of the pilots can hear over Channel 9. One of the crudest forms of approach guidance we have is an NDB (non directional becaon) approach, which uses a radio beacon operating near the AM band. We can use the ADF (automatic direction finder - used to fly an NDB approach) to tune any AM radio station. The ADF needle will swing towards the station if we have it selected on our displays, but normally the ADF is used to pull up radio stations for Channel 9. I've flown probably one NDB approach (besides practice) in my life - that was in a twin Cessna. I've never done one at UA. Heck, I've only done a handful of VOR approaches at UA.

On the newer airbuses (probably two years or newer), the ADF has been replaced with dual GPS. Most NDB approaches can also be flown as RNAV approaches using the GPS, and the GPS makes the airplane position much more accurate in places like Mexico. It's a big improvement for flying, but you can't pull up AM radio stations using a GPS.

On the 777, we have dual GPS (standard) plus an ADF, and I don't know the status of any other aircraft. My guess is that you were on a newer Airbus. In any event, the rules haven't changed.

ozstamps

What an answer.

cnk

Agreed. Very thorough reply. Will have to stop takig Airbuses during the playoffs.

CTPremEx

Mark,
Thanks for the info!
But that leads to another question: I was under the impression that the earlier UA A320s already had "only" one ADF as a factory option (I guess normally A320s come with 2?) Makes sense since most US NDB's will disappear by 2010?

Does this mean that those older A320s had a single GPS instead of dual like the newer ones? Lastly :-) is the GPS primarily used as "another" source to the IRU/IRS?

(My experience with GPS is limited to the one that is supposedly in my car and the Bendix/King KLN...)

Cheers,
CTPremex

JS

**** it, the last thing I want to hear over Channel 9 is some stupid sports game!

Mark Rogers

Correct - the older A320s have 1 ADF, the newer ones have none. The components are there for two ADFs, including display switches for the map, and a tuning place on the Rad/Nav screen of the flight management computer (FMGC).

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Does this mean that those older A320s had a single GPS instead of dual like the newer ones?

No, the older A320s have no GPS, while the newer ones have a dual GPS system.

(edited to add information for those who care about nose numbers) By newer, I'm referring to A320s with a nose number of 4654 or later, and A319s with a nose number of 4029 or later. This started happening around December 2000.

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"> Lastly :-) is the GPS primarily used as "another" source to the IRU/IRS?

(My experience with GPS is limited to the one that is supposedly in my car and the Bendix/King KLN...)

Yes, which is why you probably have more experience dealing with GPS than I do. It's pretty transparent to us - the GPS is simply another source of updating for the aircraft's intertial navigation system. For the Airbus, it's actually the ADIRS (Air data/intertial reference system), comprised of three ADIRUs (units). Airbus has entirely different acronyms for just about everything.

We basically do nothing with the GPS. The only real difference is that you are much more confident of the aircraft's map accuracy in Mexico, but otherwise, you could fly for hours and not really be aware of whether you had GPS or not. At least until you try to tune an AM radio station...




[This message has been edited by Mark Rogers (edited 05-12-2002).]

PremEx

Years ago they used to be able to tune in television stations and project them on the big screen.

Reception was often spotty and faded out and in as different broadcast zones were crossed, but I do remember watching many a game onboard, live.

Is this a thing of the past? Haven't seen it in years.

Mark Rogers

I think this was part of Sky Radio/TV (?) It hasn't been around for years, although some airplanes still have the (capped) circuit breakers for it.

PremEx

Yeah! That's it. Sky Radio and TV. I remember that name now. Thanks.

stimpy

I still get sports on 777's. But on a newer 737 from SNA to SFO, the captain first said "no problem!" to putting the game on. Then he came back and said the plane had some new ADF thing so he couldn't do it.

So there is no post-9/11 policy against sports or ATC, but as Mark says, some planes just can't do it anymore.

Just fly Jet Blue during the playoffs and watch the game on DirectTV!

PremEx

On my A320 transcon yesterday, the Captain was able to keep the Laker's game tuned in for most of the flight (except for a brief and frustrating period of time right in the middle of overtime, as we crossed some desert expanse that was void of broadcast).

chexfan

I reqested the game on yesterday's SFO-PDX flight and the captain agreed that it was a good idea and turned it on for us.

auh2o

And then there are those of us who saw it live.

On a side note, yesterday the 1:00PM LAX-SMF flight was pretty fun. Lots of folks in Laker gear headed to the game.