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Status of UA's 777 Conversion to new International First, Business and Economy Seats

Status of UA's 777 Conversion to new International First, Business and Economy Seats

 
Old Dec 7, 09, 7:43 pm
  #151  
 
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Originally Posted by santarosaflyer View Post
Rumor has it that UA is in the market for new wide-bodies and may hold off on converting the 777 until they make a decision as to which planes to buy and delivery dates. Rumor has it that some of the older 777s are going to rest and will not be converted. Rumor has it - on here .net and otherwise.
If this was the case, they would not have converted any of the less fuel efficient 744's. They have less then 10 years left.

The even the oldest 772's are only 15 years old, expect them to be around another 10-15 years. Most of the 772 fleet is owned by UA (granted, there are still probably original liens on them... but at least they are not leased back), IMhO I think this is one of those A.nut rumors.

Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
but wonder whether UA can last
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Old Dec 7, 09, 7:58 pm
  #152  
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Originally Posted by jhayes_1780 View Post
I was merely wondering how long UA could hold out refurbing their international J product waiting for 787's to come online and more importantly get firm delivery dates, which are at least 3 years off with the Boeing and 5 with Airbus as the article I linked noted. How is that ?
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Old Dec 7, 09, 9:03 pm
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Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
I was merely wondering how long UA could hold out refurbing their international J product waiting for 787's to come online
Why would they do that? What benefit would UA gain by holding out refurb on the 777's while they wait for the 787's (or whatever they buy. Or don't buy)?

I don't see anything gained by tying the two together. Nor do I see how their old C seats can hold out that much longer. Also, UA seems to have competitive advantage in their hard product vs. other airlines' C seats; why not milk that for what it's worth?
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Old Dec 7, 09, 9:11 pm
  #154  
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Originally Posted by santarosaflyer View Post
Rumor has it that UA is in the market for new wide-bodies and may hold off on converting the 777 until they make a decision as to which planes to buy and delivery dates. Rumor has it that some of the older 777s are going to rest and will not be converted. Rumor has it - on here .net and otherwise.
LOL thats just a rumor.. its on .net so there is not truth to the holding off on 777 waiting for new planes

perhaps other reasons but not that one
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Old Dec 7, 09, 9:19 pm
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Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
I was merely wondering how long UA could hold out refurbing their international J product waiting for 787's to come online and more importantly get firm delivery dates, which are at least 3 years off with the Boeing and 5 with Airbus as the article I linked noted. How is that ?
Thanks for the clarification.... I took it to mean:

"UA will be going out of business because they have not (or can not) update the F/C."

So... nevermind on the

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Old Dec 7, 09, 9:26 pm
  #156  
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Originally Posted by 1kBill View Post
Why would they do that? What benefit would UA gain by holding out refurb on the 777's while they wait for the 787's (or whatever they buy. Or don't buy)?

I don't see anything gained by tying the two together. Nor do I see how their old C seats can hold out that much longer. Also, UA seems to have competitive advantage in their hard product vs. other airlines' C seats; why not milk that for what it's worth?
Sorry but I understand why the two issues are connected as UA doesn't want to spend good money upgrading planes they would likely retire within a few years time. How many years is the debate as UA likely couldn't get 787's or the A350 delivered until at least 2013-2015 so they would have to limp along with an unrefurbed 777 biz class product until that time which puts them at a competative disadvantage with premium passengers who are the higher margin passengers airlines crave.

IMHO UA will probably slowly start upgrading some of the 777 fleet and as they take delivery of any ordered new widebodies replace the refurbed 777 on routes operating older models.
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Old Dec 7, 09, 10:14 pm
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Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post

IMHO UA will probably slowly start upgrading some of the 777 fleet and as they take delivery of any ordered new widebodies replace the refurbed 777 on routes operating older models.
IMHO you are wrong. UA's oldest 777 is only 15 years old. So the oldest plane is at least 10 years away from retirement, with probably most lasting at least another 15 years. They are currently the youngest widebody group in the fleet - if UA has invested in the 767 and the 747 for new seats, there is absolutely no logic suggesting that they would stop with the 777 (and considering that multiple reliable sources have pointed out that February is still a go for the start of the refurb process and that they should be working through the fleet at a reasonable clip).
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Old Dec 7, 09, 11:04 pm
  #158  
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Originally Posted by andrewwm View Post
IMHO you are wrong.
I sit corrected as I've done at little more reading on the 'new plane order thread' and the WSJ has UA replacing the 767's and 747's with the new orders down the road a few years:

United has 24 747-400s, with an average age of 13 year, and if flies 35 Boeing 767-300s, which are 15-years-old on average. It is expected that those two fleets will be phased out after the new aircraft start arriving.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 2:05 am
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The cost of the refurb is about $650k per plane. To put this in perspective, if UA picks up two extra C pax per week on each route, the refurb pays for itself in about a year. If I was UA, I would make this bet.

On the other hand I think there are now some better flat bed C seats available and I would be looking at those rather than what they put in the 744s.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 3:34 am
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Originally Posted by 5khours View Post
The cost of the refurb is about $650k per plane. To put this in perspective, if UA picks up two extra C pax per week on each route, the refurb pays for itself in about a year. If I was UA, I would make this bet.

On the other hand I think there are now some better flat bed C seats available and I would be looking at those rather than what they put in the 744s.
That is it? 650k per plane? I would think the hardware alone in the refurbishment would be more than that, not even counting the labor. I would love to see some factual info on the cost of the rehab.

IMO UA could refurbish their old fleet and save the cost of replacing some planes. If the engines, mechanicals need to be replaced that is one thing, but if they are looking to update the interior with the latest and greatest they can do that without buying new planes. I don't know the lifespan of a plane and look for others who know more to chime in.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 3:14 pm
  #161  
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IF this is the case then UA would keep the bird close to home and do SFO-ORD, ORD-IAD, IAD-DEN routes... If something is going to wrong it will happen so keep them flying at home, that is what UA did when the 777 was rolled out.


Originally Posted by mahasamatman View Post
I don't think they use that criterion. The 747s and 767s debuted to/from FRA, and there's no competition there. They'll probably debut on the shortest possible routes for shakedowns.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 4:33 pm
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All of this talk about routes and equipment retirement!


The planes are YEARS from the FIRST delivery.

They may cancel the orders if they need to.

UA may not even exist then.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 5:16 pm
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Originally Posted by schley View Post
That is it? 650k per plane? I would think the hardware alone in the refurbishment would be more than that, not even counting the labor. I would love to see some factual info on the cost of the rehab.

IMO UA could refurbish their old fleet and save the cost of replacing some planes. If the engines, mechanicals need to be replaced that is one thing, but if they are looking to update the interior with the latest and greatest they can do that without buying new planes. I don't know the lifespan of a plane and look for others who know more to chime in.
Heard it straight out of Tilton's mouth. $60MM for 90 planes.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 7:42 pm
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777 refurb to start in 2010 and work to be performed in SFO by United. At least that is the last I heard.
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Old Dec 14, 09, 4:22 am
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Originally Posted by santarosaflyer View Post
Rumor has it that UA is in the market for new wide-bodies and may hold off on converting the 777 until they make a decision as to which planes to buy and delivery dates. Rumor has it that some of the older 777s are going to rest and will not be converted. Rumor has it - on here .net and otherwise.

Heard same thing and maybe true as some international 777 routes have changed to 767 ... Rome UA 966 and UA 967 now 767... we'll see.

I did go ahead and buy the iPod cord to watch my own stuff on the 15 inch screen, worked great... think you can still only buy the cords thru the UA Duty Free catalog, but dont forget to hand them your MP Card when purchasing for your discount.
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