Really confused...sold out or what ???
Oct 19, 2001, 5:00 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: PHL
Programs: Usairways Silver
Posts: 185
Really confused...sold out or what ???
I am hoping someone can share some insight and tell me what is going on here. I was originally scheduled on Nov 1 PHL>IAD>MSY...My flights were cancelled and I was rerouted PHL>ORD>MSY...The one flight from PHL>IAD is now sold out I was told...This morning I check and it appears on the UAL website the flight is now again open as I plugged in dates etc and that flight came up as one of my choices...Great I thought I can call and switch back to my original routing and avoid flying to ORD..I call and I tell them I see this flight is open online, I want to switch back. I am told it is sold out...I ask then why is it available on your website? The agent tells me I dont know, that is strange...yes strange indeed...SO why would they be selling tickets online and telling me its sold out? Does this normally happen ?? Or is UA lying to me ??
Oct 19, 2001, 6:20 am
#2
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Nor Cal
Programs: UA Global Svcs 3 MM, LH Senator, BA Gold
Posts: 537
This happened to me on a flight with only a couple of seats left. I was looking at the web while on the phone, and the CSR had the same reply, no seats.
I did the old hang up and try again, and after two tries, did indeed succeed in getting the seat.
I did the old hang up and try again, and after two tries, did indeed succeed in getting the seat.
Oct 19, 2001, 7:06 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: PHL
Programs: Usairways Silver
Posts: 185
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Marin 1K:
This happened to me on a flight with only a couple of seats left. I was looking at the web while on the phone, and the CSR had the same reply, no seats.
I did the old hang up and try again, and after two tries, did indeed succeed in getting the seat.</font>
This happened to me on a flight with only a couple of seats left. I was looking at the web while on the phone, and the CSR had the same reply, no seats.
I did the old hang up and try again, and after two tries, did indeed succeed in getting the seat.</font>
Oct 19, 2001, 7:49 am
#4
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Michigan, ex SF Bay Area
Posts: 831
I have noticed that sometimes the same flight segment will show up differently on ual.com depending on the context. For example, if I specify origin and destination as ORD-SFO, a particular flight might show a particular booking class (or the entire flight) as sold out; but if I specify DTW-SFO (i.e. connecting in ORD), the same ORD-SFO flight might show availablility--even straight 9s--in the same booking class(es).
I have also had it happen that I saw on the website a particular flight I wanted had availability, but when I went to a local travel agent 15 minutes later for ticketing in order to use a voucher, their screen showed 0 availability. After a few minutes passed, they tried again and it still showed 0. Then they tried again and it showed seats available. Not sure if they did it a different way that time, but I saw the numbers change. [There's a bit more to the story, but this is the gist of it.]
I assumed at least the first case was due to a bug in Apollo (is it still called Apollo?), but perhaps it is by design from some strange yield management formula.
I have also had it happen that I saw on the website a particular flight I wanted had availability, but when I went to a local travel agent 15 minutes later for ticketing in order to use a voucher, their screen showed 0 availability. After a few minutes passed, they tried again and it still showed 0. Then they tried again and it showed seats available. Not sure if they did it a different way that time, but I saw the numbers change. [There's a bit more to the story, but this is the gist of it.]
I assumed at least the first case was due to a bug in Apollo (is it still called Apollo?), but perhaps it is by design from some strange yield management formula.
Oct 19, 2001, 8:17 am
#5
Join Date: May 2001
Location: exUA1K, UA MM, lifetime UA1P, AA MM, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,731
The "context" thing seems to work like this:
In an attempt to maximize revenue, inventory is sometimes reserved for high revenue connections (like to/from international connections).
example: Do not sell a Y seat from CLE-IAD for US$ 300 when you could sell the same seat as part of a US$4200 CLE-IAD-LHR. (I made up the supposed fares.)
I have seen this many times connecting through IAD (many high revenue international connection opportunities there) from various cities up/down the east coast. It usually (but not always) happens when inventory gets lean. Usually the "unrestricted" inventory opens up at the departing airport.
In an attempt to maximize revenue, inventory is sometimes reserved for high revenue connections (like to/from international connections).
example: Do not sell a Y seat from CLE-IAD for US$ 300 when you could sell the same seat as part of a US$4200 CLE-IAD-LHR. (I made up the supposed fares.)
I have seen this many times connecting through IAD (many high revenue international connection opportunities there) from various cities up/down the east coast. It usually (but not always) happens when inventory gets lean. Usually the "unrestricted" inventory opens up at the departing airport.
Oct 19, 2001, 8:22 am
#6
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: 3A - most likey <> BKK <--> EZE; TACA 3A nobody, but GP million miler; Hilton Gold sometimes. Successfully divorced from CO PLAT.
Posts: 3,079
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rare:
...if I specify origin and destination as ORD-SFO, a particular flight might show a particular booking class as sold out; but if I specify DTW-SFO (connecting in ORD), the same ORD-SFO flight might show availablility...in the same booking classes.
I assumed at least the first case was due to a bug in Apollo, but perhaps it is by design from some strange yield management formula.</font>
...if I specify origin and destination as ORD-SFO, a particular flight might show a particular booking class as sold out; but if I specify DTW-SFO (connecting in ORD), the same ORD-SFO flight might show availablility...in the same booking classes.
I assumed at least the first case was due to a bug in Apollo, but perhaps it is by design from some strange yield management formula.</font>
For example, if you can't get the COS you need from ORD-SFO... one can try pulling it up from DTW-ORD-SFO. A trick to getting the seat that you need (which was often used by travel professionals) was to book the second option... and then just cancel out the DTW-ORD portion.
The airlines have caught on to this attempt to overcome yield mgmnt... and so now have programmed in what's know as 'married segments'. You can book the second option... but then the computer won't let you cancel the DTW-ORD segment because its 'married' to the ORD-SFO portion.
UAL is particularly nasty in this regard!
[This message has been edited by tvl4free (edited 10-19-2001).]
Oct 19, 2001, 8:52 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: PHL
Programs: Usairways Silver
Posts: 185
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by roberto99:
I have seen this many times connecting through IAD (many high revenue international connection opportunities there) from various cities up/down the east coast. It usually (but not always) happens when inventory gets lean. Usually the "unrestricted" inventory opens up at the departing airport.</font>
I have seen this many times connecting through IAD (many high revenue international connection opportunities there) from various cities up/down the east coast. It usually (but not always) happens when inventory gets lean. Usually the "unrestricted" inventory opens up at the departing airport.</font>
Oct 19, 2001, 8:57 am
#8
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Nor Cal
Programs: UA Global Svcs 3 MM, LH Senator, BA Gold
Posts: 537
I can understand the international segment argument, but when it happened to me, it was on a plain vanilla SEA-SFO (soon-to-be-gone) Shuttle flight.
Oct 19, 2001, 9:24 am
#9
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
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Posts: 14,636
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tvl4free:
Your story is nothing new; I see it all the time... and it is indeed an effort by yield mgmnt to limit and control seats.
For example, if you can't get the COS you need from ORD-SFO... one can try pulling it up from DTW-ORD-SFO. A trick to getting the seat that you need (which was often used by travel professionals) was to book the second option... and then just cancel out the DTW-ORD portion.
The airlines have caught on to this attempt to overcome yield mgmnt... and so now have programmed in what's know as 'married segments'. You can book the second option... but then the computer won't let you cancel the DTW-ORD segment because its 'married' to the ORD-SFO portion.
UAL is particularly nasty in this regard!
[This message has been edited by tvl4free (edited 10-19-2001).]</font>
Your story is nothing new; I see it all the time... and it is indeed an effort by yield mgmnt to limit and control seats.
For example, if you can't get the COS you need from ORD-SFO... one can try pulling it up from DTW-ORD-SFO. A trick to getting the seat that you need (which was often used by travel professionals) was to book the second option... and then just cancel out the DTW-ORD portion.
The airlines have caught on to this attempt to overcome yield mgmnt... and so now have programmed in what's know as 'married segments'. You can book the second option... but then the computer won't let you cancel the DTW-ORD segment because its 'married' to the ORD-SFO portion.
UAL is particularly nasty in this regard!
[This message has been edited by tvl4free (edited 10-19-2001).]</font>
Oct 19, 2001, 9:45 am
#10
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Michigan, ex SF Bay Area
Posts: 831
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Klineact:
Inventory must be VERY lean. I priced out these segments that I booked..It priced out at $1659! for a coach ticket!! I paid $89 when I booked it back in July...Guess I got a pretty good deal!</font>
Inventory must be VERY lean. I priced out these segments that I booked..It priced out at $1659! for a coach ticket!! I paid $89 when I booked it back in July...Guess I got a pretty good deal!</font>
Thanks for the info about "married segments", tvl4free, and about high-revenue connections, roberto99. Very interesting. More pieces to the puzzle.
Oct 19, 2001, 10:15 am
#11
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
I saw this too just this morning.
MEL-LAX shows V9
SAN-MEL (ie: SAN-LAX-MEL) shows V0
SAN-LAX V9
LAX-MEL V9
yet, you can see an applicable fare for SAN-MEL as a V.
I asked a friend of mine at UA about this, and he went into apollo and it gave him an H fare as the cheapest option, even though the V one was out there, but agreed V was available for all segments.
very annoying.
------------------
RichardMEL, UA 1K
A Star Alliance Member.
MEL-LAX shows V9
SAN-MEL (ie: SAN-LAX-MEL) shows V0
SAN-LAX V9
LAX-MEL V9
yet, you can see an applicable fare for SAN-MEL as a V.
I asked a friend of mine at UA about this, and he went into apollo and it gave him an H fare as the cheapest option, even though the V one was out there, but agreed V was available for all segments.
very annoying.
------------------
RichardMEL, UA 1K
A Star Alliance Member.