Asked To Sit Down
 

Yesterday, I was in seat 1B on an A319. As I usually do at some point in a flight (and as I had done on 3 previous flights that weekend), I get up to stretch my legs and chat with the FAs.

After chatting and getting along fine, at one point the First FA went into the cockpit. After about 10 minutes, an FA from the back came up and asked where the FA was. I said "she's up with the crew." She then said "Well, you have to sit down immediatly. No one is allowed to stand in this area any more."

I complied without saying a word.

Now mind you, where I was standing was all of about 20 inches from where I am sitting.

When the First FA came out of the cockpit and through the cabin to ask if we needed anything, I told her I was asked to sit down and that I was told I wasn't allowed to stretch at the front of the cabin any longer.

I inquired if this was an official rule, or just a request of a particular FA. She just rolled her eyes and apologized and said no it was not an official rule and that some FAs are taking things a bit harder than others.

I said I was fine with that, but she went to the back and had a chat with the other FA and then came back up to welcome me to resume my stretching.

I thanked her but declined.

I don't mind FAs making their own rules up, but if they do, I think they should tell it like it is. I don't think they should imply that it is some new FAA or company-wide rule, when it isn't.


[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 09-25-2001).]

Hey, you should read the post in the AA Forum about the pilots who are ordering people strapped into their seats for the full flight, must request to go to washrooms, and cannot keep any carryons on the floor [must be kept in overheads]! Welcome to kindergarten, or the world of the Soup Nazis.

i figured something like this would happen and have remained seated during my 3 flights so far to avoid being told to sit.

but since there are virtually no magazines on the planes and no hemispheres either or ch9, it does get very boring

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f

On a flight from LAS to SFO last week, the pilot explicitly instructed passengers not to hang out in the galley whilst awaiting in the lavatory queue. He didn't mention anything about FAA or UA policies so I assumed this was his personal preference. Given that it was a sh*ttle, it made it a tad difficult to discern when the lav was actually available. As far as I am concerned UA can craft whatever rules it wishes but it would help both passengers and crew to promulgate standardized rules of conduct.

I think that's the point pilots are trying to make with their "speeches" and such...that they aren't getting any guidance or instructions about changes in rules or cabin guidelines from either the government or their company. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

I get the impression that they are very frustrated by the lack of leadership of both, in this regard.

It seems to me that they feel the only place they are getting suggestions from are their fellow pilots or their union.

And I think that's why they keep saying "were're on our own now."


[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 09-25-2001).]

Per post in another thread, I had a PAX from coach come up and ask me to sit when I was standing in the galley beacuse I was making her nervous. So, close the curtain then. But seriously, the FA did not ask me sit right away but and was clearly bothered by the request. After a few minutes I did take my seat as I felt guilty for making some lady uncomfortable (never mind that I was more comfortable standing).

Sigh.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/007888.html

On my flight to LAS on Friday on a 767, the Pursar announced that there was only one lav "working" in FC to use (the one NOT by the cockpit) and that there were two in the coach section, and pax should use the ones in the cabin in which they were seated. About an hour away from landing, I went up to the galley as usual to stretch and chat with the FA's. I asked them if it was okay and it was going to bother them at all. They all said not at all, but one FA said if I had been on her inbound flight, that it would not be permissable because the Captain said that he wanted nobody to hang around or loiter in the galley area whatsoever. When I saw the Pursar coming out of the supposedly "broken" lav and asked about it (inquiring minds want to know), she said that the Captain ordered it locked not for pax use at all. On my return on a 757 on Sun, it was really business as usual. There were queues of 2-3 people waiting for the FC lav and nobody said a word. They did, however, serve those individual wine bottles in FC.

I've been on 6 flights since the attack and on each of them I have adhered to my custom of spending some time up front with the FA's. I haven't had any reactions so far, but I would refuse to change my custom for anyone. Even the Captain. Until there is a federal law or perhaps a written airline rule, I'll do as I please.

(Please see the sentence at the end of this note about what has been edited/added)

Stimpy ,

From the Federal Air Regulations (FAR's), part 91.3:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/c...4cfr91_00.html

§ 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command: (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

There's a reason they call him/her "Pilot in Command."

Whether it's reasonable, prudent, right, or whatever to make such restrictions re standing outside the lav is one question; whether they have the power to is entirely another. Reg after reg in the FAR's specify the virtually unlimited power that the PIC has while operating and in command of an aircraft.

E.g, The FAR's also make it clear that where such authority is abused in specific ways (prohibiting standing by the lavs not being one of those), there are very strict accountablilty and even disciplinary or punishment processes after the fact. But the regs assume that "before the fact," the PIC needs "command authority" that is unquestioned.

Thus the rest of part 91.3:
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency. (c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator.

In the air, the pilot is literally "in command." Period. And the FAR's say this about who onboard is affected by this command authority and how:

§ 91.1 (c) This part applies to each person on board an aircraft being operated under this part, unless otherwise specified.

and

§ 91.11 No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated.

Again, my only point here is that the pilot has the authority while Pilot in Command to do anything he/she deems necessary to conduct the flight safely. My point is not whether the pilot should have the kind of rules that are being talked about on this thread; you can take that up with the airline or the FAA. But while conducting the flight the Pilot in Command's orders have the full force of Federal law.

An aside: the first day I started training for the Private Pilot certificate, my flight instructor read me § 91.3 before we ever began the lesson: "The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft." He then went on to say that because Federal law vested such authority in me when I was flying an aircraft (even a lowly Cesnna 150) that it was now his job to teach me how to fly safely and, in his opinion more importantly, teach me what good judgment was in using that authority. It was a lesson remembered.

(I have substantially edited this post from its earlier incarnation; however, nothing was deleted from that first posting. I only added quite a bit more to make the point I was making clearer -- I hope -- and rather than add a new post, I chose to add to this one)

[This message has been edited by cblaisd (edited 09-26-2001).]

Stimpy said:

Huh???? "You'll do as you please"? Captain asks FA's to have you/us sit unless using lavs. You/we do not. Enjoy the company of the FBI for several hours/days on your arrival is my guess of that outcome right now.

They even provide cute stainless steel bracelets free of charge and loan them to you the SECOND they reach the gate - hey they will probably come on board and loan them to you before anyone else deplanes. Plan all your meetings 24 hours after arrival if you insist on that "freedom" I suggest.

Get sensible please.

[This message has been edited by avgas (edited 09-25-2001).]

Why are the lines in this thread 175 characters long. I'm getting carpal tunnel syndrome moving the mouse around!!

Yes, it's legal for the pilot to be an *******, but let's look at this from a business point of view. After all, UA needs customers to fund the pilot's paycheck and retirement. Treating passengers like dog **** is totally unacceptable. If an agent treats you like dog ****, you can complain on the spot, and you can write a complaint letter later. You won't be arrested for complaining about an agent. But if the pilot treats you like dog ****, you just have to put up with it (please, sir, may I have some more?)

What is this, the military? A prison? A kindergarten class? No one wants to pay money to be treated this way.

[thanks, cblaisd]

[This message has been edited by JS (edited 09-25-2001).]

Because the link in cblaisd's post above is so long, the text of it won't wrap.

I knew Ozstamps couldn't stay away.