Warning: 1K systemwides being devalued
 

UA is starting to add new terms to a fair (unfair) number of int'l fares, specifically excluding them from upgrades. As you may know, 1K systemwides are valid on most fares, unless the terms of the fare specifically exclude upgrading. Int'l e-fares have always included this exclusion. The "published" (non-e-fare) int'l fares -- those most popular to/from Europe -- now include language that prevent use of any upgrades, including systemwides. As a result, Europe coach fares that can be upgraded using the 1K certs are now double that of the most popular, now "non-upgradeable" fares.

Seems surprising that UA would be doing something like this now, considering general frustrations by top tier flyers after the summer from hell. (Although, adding the restrictions to fare terms are UA's way of not puublicizing the devaluation of the certs).

UA's move is also surprising considering that AA's systemwide certs -- provided to their 100,000 mile flyers -- are valid on ANY fare and do not carry inventory restrictions (they book straight into revenue J or F).

I'm having my 10 or so 1K friends express their concern with UA's actions by sending faxes or e-mails to UA MilPlus (Attn: 1K). Would like to know if any other FlyerTalkers are frustrated by this change and/or planning to do the same.

The "published" (non-e-fare) int'l fares -- those most popular to/from Europe -- now include language that prevent use of any upgrades, including systemwides.

? please explain: what kind of 'published int'l fares to/from Europe will now/in-the-near-future be excluded from upgrades with systemwide-1K-vouchers?

I had no problem to get confirmed upgrades (using systemwide 1K-vouchers) for future transatlantic flights with deep discounted fares on UA (just yesterday).

I have had no problems as well - just booked a dirt cheap SFO-SIN milage run for this month. Total fare was lowest UA offered on this run - $608. UA did not bat an eye when I told them I wanted to use systemwide upgrades.

There are certain efares that specifically say "no upgrades", but those are usually VERY low fares to KIX, TPE or other lower traffic asian destinations. If you need to upgrade on those routes, just buy the non e-fare (should not be too much higher than the e-fare) and you shoild not have a problem.

Good luck!

The only crunch I've run into is trouble finding flights w/ NC seats.

Greg

SFO-LHR in late Oct00:

Fare Basis: WLXUKSPX
"NOTE - THESE FARES ARE NOT UPGRADEABLE THROUGH MILEAGE PLUS/ SYSTEM UPGRADES / SALES UPGRADES TO A HIGHER CLASS OF SERVICE"

Fare Basis: VKXES2
"NOTE - THESE FARES ARE NOT UPGRADEABLE THROUGH MILEAGE PLUS/ SYSTEM UPGRADES / SALES UPGRADES TO A HIGHER CLASS OF SERVICE"

SFO-LHR in late Oct00:

Fare Basis: WLXUKSPX
"NOTE - THESE FARES ARE NOT UPGRADEABLE THROUGH MILEAGE PLUS/ SYSTEM UPGRADES / SALES UPGRADES TO A HIGHER CLASS OF SERVICE"

Fare Basis: VKXES2
"NOTE - THESE FARES ARE NOT UPGRADEABLE THROUGH MILEAGE PLUS/ SYSTEM UPGRADES / SALES UPGRADES TO A HIGHER CLASS OF SERVICE"

Until recently, both of these fares could be upgraded using systemwides.

[dupe]

[This message has been edited by SFO_FT (edited 10-04-2000).]

[dupe]

[This message has been edited by SFO_FT (edited 10-04-2000).]

I just checked these rules out, and they are, indeed, in the rules within the farebase, even on higher V ($688/rt) fares. I called MP Service Center, who had not heard of this, and thought it was ridiculous and told me to write Mr. Goodwin. I am absolutely outraged. I already upgraded on a similar farebase on a trip not taken, so I hope LHR doesn't give me grief when checking in, because even though it wasn't in the rules when purchasing, some of the agents act as if they personally lose bazillions of dollars if they upgrade you. This is absolutely outrageous. I am outraged. This is ridiculous. Grrrrrr. These poor agents who will have to deal with our wrath.

The fare basis that SFO-FT lists starts out with the statement: So these are some sort of sale fare and as the 1K Systemwides clearly state that there will be some types of fares where the condition of sale prohibit upgrades, I think to an extent this type of thing should be expected now and then.

However, what bothers me about this one is that this represents the first time that I know of that United has had a sale fare, but did not have a normal V or W available in the same market at the same time. It jumps right from this special sale fare to the H fares, and there is a big price difference in that jump.

I have written here many times when 1K Systemwides came out that the "except when condition of sale prohibits upgrades" statement leaves a loophole for United that you could drive a 747 through.

I don't think I like the precedent this one is starting to set. Yes, I think a letter from all concerned 1Ks would be in order right now.

I might also suggest a phone call of complaint (or to request exceptions to the rule) to Toll Free Customer Service in the U.S. (877) 228-1498 and press option #3. Mon-Fri 8:30am to 4:30pm Central Time.


[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 10-04-2000).]

Thank you SFO-FT .. some pretty terrible news to wake up to here!

Well let's hope that fare basis rule you posted is only a rare exception but deep in my heart I really do doubt that.

The rules on back on the 1K SYSTEMWIDE cert list all the fare types worldwide it is useable on (pretty well anything purchaseable, and except to HI for whatever reason!) but with this nasty little stinger at the end:

"C,D,Y B M H Q V W S K L T booking classes EXCEPT where the terms and conditons of sale state that the fare is not eligible for upgrades.

Lets just hope someone in there doesn't simply add those fateful exclusion words "/system upgrades/" to the few 100 deep discount fare types UA peddle worldwide daily, or the benefit of them (for me and many others I can sure) will be largely lost. And lost in weeks if not days.

Whether this has anything to do with the widespread hawking of these 1K Certs on a certain online auction house trumpeting to the universe: "these suckers can be used worldwide to confirm an upgrade from the lowest possible coach fares buyable - you can save $10,000 if clever" etc as some of the sellers there are keen to point out, we will of course never know, but my views remain very strong on that outlet.

Those sort of blatant abuses of the system are clearly NOT in UA's interest whatever and may have encouraged them to "close the door". We will never know.

On the other hand, those to whom the SYS are given are a 50,000 whatever strong band of people UA right now would be VERY keen not to annoy. Their most valued 1K high tier flyers no less.

Perhaps Premex idea might bring some fruit if these fares basis rules have NOT already been re-written? My observation is that there must be about 50 use these boards on and off that appear to be 1K level - maybe others have a higher or lower take?

Whatever the number, 50 emails on one subject to Denise Harvill/Goodwin/Dutta etc WILL make an impact methinks. Perhaps posting several key email/snail mail addresses here for each concerned 1K to contact will have 3 or 4 times the impact in addition to the calls Premex also suggests?

I'll pull up a few discount fare rules and study them today to see how wide the cancer has grown within UA.

In the meantime, I personally feel Eastbay1K and others (like me!) who already have a booking in the system that has been upgraded based on presentation of a SYS will have that booking honoured. All very nice, but what about our FUTURE flights up to March 31, 2002 that many like me were counting to use these on?

------------------
~ Glen ~



[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 10-04-2000).]

ozstamps speculates: I think I will know very soon. But in the meantime, I can't in my wildest dreams imagine United changing policy that would negetivly effect all 1Ks based on the half dozen systemswides that might sell on eBay daily. I have talked to United about eBay. They don't like it. But it's literally a drop in the bucket compared to all the millions of certs they mail out. So they ignore it. Small potatos. It's not worth their time. It's not worth the money. There are dozens of big time ticket and coupon brokers out there that they do set in their sights on. But eBay? Nope. So don't worry about eBay Oz. There have been upgrades selling there for years. Trust me. eBay is not the root of all evil at United. Heck, United could just make 1K Systemwides non-transferable except for companions if they wanted to end this practice. Right?

If they start to play games with the fare rules, it has nothing to do with eBay. It has everything to do with revenue yield and it's resultant capacity controls. IMHO.

[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 10-04-2000).]

Glen, getting on someone elses case for 'trumpeting'... methinks this is the pot calling the kettle black! (meant in good humor)

LOL.. I guess if I want a quick 2400 dollars I could still sell my 6 1K upgrades?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I really hope I will have an opportunity to have a cheaper fare to use them on in the near future..

Oh well..

Shhhhhhhhhhh!!! You're not supposed to shout that out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif HEH HEH