TA

Hi all --

following our past discussions, and your example/suggestions (" Who has the priority? Award seat (XC) waitlist or Y Upgraders?"), I decided to try and redeem tickets for my parents in XF, partially seated in NY, for a trip to Hawaii and back. I figured, if it's a trick we can use, I might as well take advantage of this opportunity, despite having argued what side effects it has, and how it is "supposed" to work.

I'm disappointed to say that on the two flights where it would have mattered (waiting for XF EWR-DEN out, and HNL-ORD back), the FFCC strategy did not help much at all for us, or in the case of EWR-DEN, the agents were in addition not helpful in applying it. I ended up splitting F with my parents so they could sit at least part of the way and rest on that very long HNL-ORD flight.

I have come to the conclusion that inventory management is doing exactly as we talked about -- deciding that upgraders are more important than award redemptions. On many flights, including the ones that we tried, they are basically trickling out F seats to the NF bucket all the way up to departure, even on the morning of, leaving practically nothing by the time of DM list clearing, to even try your chances with FFCC as top priority. So regardless of the debate over XF or NF priority on the day of, it is irrelevant because there are no seats to be had.

On the flights where it matters, as a matter in practice, all upgrades have become clear-in-advance, with many cleared automatically on the day of by status, before it gets handed to the gate (where FFCC comes into play an hour or so before departure). So even my efforts to check in early and request being added as FFCC were irrelevant (the OGG/HNL agents were very helpful with this I have to say, and I thanked them). The only hope there, is that someone doesn't show up for the flight basically.

On the one hand, it is good for 1Ks, GS, full fares, etc. who benefit from this early upgrade clearance on paid tickets (my revenue upgrade cleared 3 weeks out on that same exact flight), but it also hits us too when we try to redeem F seats where there are none to be had, in hopes that it may clear. I think I have been burned and will not try this again in the future.

I wrote UA suggesting that just like NY, maybe they can consider creating a special redemption bucket of F seats for 1Ks, so that at least if they release any F seats, some can be allocated for us at reasonable mileage award levels.

ah well. would be interested to know your thoughts. of course, simple advice would be to find less crowded flights that are easier to redeem, but still, sometimes you hope that status can get you a special pass to paradise even on the most popular flights...

cepheid

I'd be willing to be good money (which, incidentally, I don't have ) that the majority of people redeeming XC/XF awards are already elite (or traveling with one). Not only that, 1Ks already get to see the premium cabins much more than everyone else (via CR-1s and SWUs)... a special 1K-XF bucket would all but guarantee that lower elites wouldn't be able to redeem premium awards. IMHO, anyway.

1KChinito

Sorry to hear about your results. Were you flying on M-TH with 2-class 767/777 service?

anc-ord772

I also has posed a similar question regarding an XF award and the last segment in Y.

I went to the RCC last week and asked to have my companion put on the F waitlist because although ticketed in F she was in Y. Agent had no problem adding her to the list (FFCC) and moved her up to E+ just in case the seat didn't come through. Was #1 on the waitlist and got the F seat no problem.

It depends on what routes I imagine, but I do believe that if added to FFCC at a reasonable time, you can still beat out the upgraders on the DM.

TA

the return was UA 2, HNL-ORD 777, and for some reason, it was just packed. Flights before and after, on the same day, and the previous and next day, were F9s...

fadeforward

What evidence do you have that the F seats were released to upgraders and not sold as revenue F last-minute? Or lost to those higher on the FFCC list? The routes you mention are very competitive regardless.

Also, you keep saying that this is a "trick." After your experience, wouldn't this be better described as a "risk"? You are basically risking paying for something that you don't end up receiving.

TA

oh, that is for sure. You will beat any upgraders when it goes to DM. But my feeling is that for certain popular flights, DM never gets a chance by that time.

because at one point, I saw NF1 in the inventory... And according to the helpful GA, we were at the top of the DM as the only FFCCs.

It is a risk, but also a "trick" because in better times (and certain routes) it allowed you to pretty surely only have to redeem at the normal levels for an F award seat. And you are not automatically added to that list -- you have to know and ask, hence the trick.

flymetokix

NY is no bargain. I can't speak for domestic flights, but for international flights it has only fractionally more seats in most cases I have seen.

1KChinito

Which day of the week?

kevanyalowitz

Along the same lines, I think they need to change the PA/PB to a status-based waitlist rather than FIFO. I know that when GS tells me that 'I have top priority' that really is not true until it goes to DM.

Why should a GM or 2P beat a GS or full/high fare person on the waitlist simply because they booked their ticket further in advance. It costs more to book close in, yet doing so puts your further down on the PA/PB.

TA

I think one counterargument to this is that PA is already populated by only 1Ks, or the beneficiaries of their upgrade instruments. You can't get on PA without being, or knowing a 1K, isn't that right? PA consists of SWUs and CR1 upgrade requests?

John26

In some ways this is also a by-product of what used to be a relatively unknown boarding priority being publicized to the entire FlyerTalk community

But on that note, it is what it is and the DM list will sort out who belongs in the premium seats.

iceman77_7

Do you always have to ask to be added even though in theory you should already be added in the first place? I have an itin where I should be on FFCC if I don't clear in advance and want to avoid the extra hassle of actually making sure I'm on the right waitlist if I can avoid it.

fadeforward

I would be willing to bet that this is phantom NF1 availability and .bomb playing tricks. You have to agree that it is highly unlikely that no one would be on the upgrade waitlist on an HNL flight with one day to go. My only point here is that I think you got pretty unlucky and F got filled up with revenue travelers last-minute or disserviced F pax on other routes. I'd say this is a gamble you'd win on most routes, though with much less success expected on ORD-HNL.

By this logic, applying an e-upgrade is a "trick." The only reason I'm pushing on this is because the rules are very logical to me: you pay for a ticket, you get ranked above upgraders who don't. I think that this is fair, not some loophole that needs to be closed down. Playing the FFCC game is a risk, not a trick.

And mileage upgrades for and by 1Ks.

kevanyalowitz

That's why I said PA and PB. I (and I assum you) have seen F seats dwindle(yes, they COULD be paid) to the point of F0 many hours prior to the DM. I don't understand why anyone upgrading (miles, swu, whatever) should have priority simply because they booked early. Those that book late are the ones paying the highest fares...