blueman2

Of course, now that I have one (HERE) the question becomes whether UA can take any action against me, such as refusing service while I am wearing my band. My take is no way. But I wonder what the case law is on this.

Even if case law allows it, it would be inconceivable (once more, apologies to Princess Pride) for UA to do so. The publicity would be suicide.

roadkit

You make the assumption that because a call center is operated outsiude the US, it can't provide good custmoer service - as if Americans have a lock on that.

And yes, employees are responsible for their own actions. However, unless UA is like the team in "Major League" I doubt they have endorsed or otherwise told employees to provide poor customer service.

IMHO, employees who provide poor CS are just using it as an excuse to "get back" at management. That's a clue that you should get another job.

If UA employees are "under attack" and are still hanging around, they must either love abuse or be the stupidest employees on the face of the earth.

From all the posts on FT lately about the UA management-employee dysfunction, I swear it sounds like a marriage where one spouse is beating the crap out of the other, and the other one won't try to escape.

blueman2

I disagree with your options that UA employees are either "stupid" or masochistic.

Yes, in theory employees are free to go where they can get the best job and pay. Employers are free to hire those who provide the best value for the pay. Nice theory. But in reality, there are always switching costs. Many UA employees have dedicated their careers to UA. It is not so easy to switch careers when you are 40 or 50. Emotionally and financially, long term UA employees are somewhat stuck. So the 'love it our leave it' theory of employment needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

aluminumdriver

I don't love abuse, as I wouldn't think anyone would. But I have been at United over 21 years, and GT has been here 5 years I think. Who should move on I ask? Management moves on and starts over somewhere else with million dollar salaries as a senior manager. I move on and start over as a FO somewhere at the bottom of another airline making $30,000 a year until I make captain again in 20 years. So it is not as simple as you make it, thus the push to rid the airline of the ONE person versus telling the other 50,000 people they need to move on.

roadkit

I understand it is not easy to start over. But there is a difference to accepting a poor work environment for a few months and doing it for several years.

I guess I just have to think that if UA employees are really "under attack" - if management is making decisions to intentionally harm or put employees under duress - then why would you stay? You can make more than $30K a year doing a lot of different flying jobs.

And imagine the response you would get if all of the employees at UA agreed that Tilton must go - or they do? Tell the board that if at some date certain he is not gone, then the airline will cease to exist because there won't be any employees.

I bet that would get their attention.

aluminumdriver

The Railroad Labor Act really limits what labor can do to influence the company. We can't threaten to strike outside of normal Section 6 negotiations, and you can't threaten to walk out enmass due to what you see happening right now in court. You can threaten to withhold extra favors and work, but other than that you really have few options. I do have some feelers out on other opportunities and if they come through, I may move on. But, it is a shame that I would have to give up my career at United. Just like you all say how much you love flying United, imagine how much the employees care about their own company. It really is too sad we can't all get along.

PTravel

I've been chatting with the FAs of late, and I usually wind up mentioning my disgust with Glen Tilton, particularly for ignoring the givebacks by the FAs and pilots during the bankruptcy while taking an obscene bonus for himself. Needless to say, the FAs are not exactly disappointed with my opinion -- I've even had a couple mention it to the pilot and FO, which always earns me a friendly wave from the cockpit.

Of late, I've had some truly fantastic FAs -- how so few people can manage the beverage service on a completely full 737 and still provide excellent service to F on the short LAX/SFO run is amazing. I'd like to show my support by wearing one of those "Tilton Must Go" wrist bands. Does anyone know where I can get one?

roadkit

You can probably get one from one of those incredibly professional FAs, don'tcha think?

PTravel

Possibly, though I don't understand your comment about "incredibly professional FAs." They were incredibly professional -- I'm the one who raised the topic, not they.

axl

PTravel,

Roadkit's opinion is pretty well established re. the wristbands. IHO, they are unprofessional, offensive, and anyone wearing one should be fired.

I think he is actually GT himself since the company has sent letter a letter to the pilots actually threatening discipline (up to and including termination). What a bunch of punks! Anyway, my guess is that they don't have the stones to do that, but they might try if we actually handed them out to customers! I would ask you to not put them in that position...I know you wouldn't want to anyway. They are actually fairly hard to come by nowadays (supply and demand) so it's hard for any of us to get them.

I'm sure they appreciate you sharing you feelings and being supportive. I wouldn't hesitate to do that! Our (employee's and passengers) interests are way more aligned than most see. Stop in the cockpit to say hi to the pilots sometime. If we're not busy, the VAST majority really like to visit and talk with the passengers! It's just that it's hard to get out of the cockpit sometimes since we're usually on the radio coordinating one thing or another.

BTW, Thank You for your voice of reason and support!

Axl (UA Pilot)

blueman2

PTravel,

Do what I did. Write a note to the UnitedAFA. I did and got one within about a week. Not sure if they are doing this broadly, though. I sent my note the day the bracelets came out.

[email protected]

PTravel

Perhaps. Fortunately, I've never had to work in an environment or for an employer with UA's executives' philosophy. It's fine to say, "if you don't like it, quit," but that's hardly practical given the current economic client and, in any event, in my personal opinion, UA's employees relied on promises made in exchange for givebacks during the bankruptcy, and it would be nice to see those promises kept.

I understand your concern but, as a UA customer, I think I should be able to show my support for the people who actually keep me flying on the airline. I was hoping that maybe one of the union websites offered them.

I often do stop by but, lately, with planes running so full, I'm usually guarding my rollaboard in the overhead. Perhaps we'll meet sometime. You don't happen to fly the SFO/LAX run by any chance, do you?

You're quite welcome. It's a shame that, in these days of chasing the bargain-seeking, casual flier, most pax don't have a clue what you and the other in-flight personnel do -- they think pilots are responsible for weather delays, it's the FA's fault that the airline stopped giving out pretzels, etc.

Thanks, blueman2 -- I'll do that. Wouldn't it be great if sometime the FAs begin their beverage service and see every pax in F and E+ wearing one!

UA-NYC

I'm just completing a flight as I write this - looking down at my orange GGG bracelet on my wrist! I was chatting up the FAs, talking about how much of a disgrace it all was. I also mentioned that I was *cough cough* the dedicated UAL flyer and FT user who "broke" the bracelet story - and that now everyone was clamoring for one! I mentioned that I had mailed the AFA, with no response and nothing in the mail as of yet (though it was only a week ago). One helpful FA said she'd talk to the pilots.

Lo and behold - she came back with with a bracelet! Guess they have a few spare ones in their bags. I will be sure to give a GTEM to the cockpit occupants as I deplane!

Liz

They sure are getting around! My friend said several of his pax in F had the wristbands! ^

Seeksreal

I want one too!!! I think this is an absolutely appropriate form of getting the message out. I am solidly with axl and the other UA employees in this matter. Even airline employees (and employees in other service professions) are people and not service robots without feelings. If you don't like that, then don't buy services from companies that use humans to deliver the services.