UAjunkie

My experience ex-ORD travel and mostly looking at various transpac routes is that in the last couple of years UA has practically stopped providing Saver Business class fares. My experience previously was that it was possible with some flexibility, then it went to being something that tended to get released in a window about 2d before departure, now finally it seems to be almost extinct. Even when I look at a flight now with less than 24hrs to departure and some limited C available Saver seats don't happen.

It has gotten to the point where the last couple of years I have ended up booking F seats that are a bit easier to come by (and a bit of a waste in the opinion of myself and many others). The frustrating part of that is I am usually using the miles to get a seat for UAJunkiette on we have to then end up in separate cabins (her in F on miles and myself in C on an upgrade, best case).

I am starting to consider maybe it is getting so difficult I am going to have to go all Standard Award to use miles in which case I should wait use them all after the F/C upgrades. Or maybe think of some alternate strategies for companion travel.

Have you all observed something similar? What do you think are the best strategies for trying to travel in premium with a companion (aside from paying F/C in which case I would be on SQ anyway)?

lucky9876coins

It sounds to me like you are only searching online, which is UA metal only. UA metal C awards are quite rare, but that's why you should either use the ANA tool or call. Star Alliance C availability is generally very good, not to mention most carriers offer a better product!^

jd2000

Personally, I just bit the bullet and got Mrs. 2000 a standard C award (200k miles, ouch) the time I brought her transPac with me -- there really wasn't any other option. Obviously if you can get saver-F for less, if you want to sit together you can always trade down unofficially once on board (which I would have done, but that wasn't available either). I decided that personally the 200k was worth it; obviously that's a decision for everyone to make themselves. I've had very good luck with 25k domestic awards, but I thought a C ticket to SIN with a stopover in NRT was not terrible value compared to 8 domestic flights. I'm generally really stingy, but I just made up my mind that I wanted her with me, was going to spend the miles, and was not going to feel any stress over getting a standard award. If I had more frequent opportunities to use a lot of miles, or if it was just a simple out & back trip to North Asia, I'd probably have a different outlook.

aerokitty

It is an indication that UA thinks it can fill C cabin with more profitable ways. There are plenty of paid-C/D/Z ex-ORD (or ex-SFO in my case). Then come the pile of upgrades with an underlying paid fare (min H if miles, W if SWU), then come the Standard Awards. Saver awards are at the bottom of the heap.

I asked a similar question when domestic first was showing no awards but plenty of upgrade/sale space. Appears that UA's IM is trying to get some $$ out of the F seat (even if a L fare) than give the seat away for nothing. Apparently, the liability of all those MP miles out there is not enough of a concern for UA.

jd2000

When I went (granted, outbound on a Saturday and back on a Sunday with no flexibility) the ANA tool showed no saver C availability on any STAR carrier. I agree that it's important to check, but don't get hopes up too high.

UAjunkie

You are correct. The sad part is yes I intentionally do it on what is called C service on UA metal because it ends up being trips where I am trying to burn SWU for myself. This does bring up another angle which would be that if we are already having trouble getting in the same cabin maybe one (albeit less than ideal) strategy is to just go with separate planes and let her go Star Alliance C.

cesco.g

UA does not give the seat away for nothing. It is paid for by miles, for most of us earned by spending sizable amounts of $$$ on UA !!

aerokitty

Ahh, and here is the beauty of the whole MP enterprise. To you (and me), the miles are worth a lot, paid for as you point out, with $$$ and callouses on our rears.

To UA, the miles are nothing. The $$$ you spent accruing the miles have long been accounted for. There is a liability associated with the miles, but as others have pointed out, it isn't much, especially when UA controls the T's and C's of the whole shebang.

So, from UA's standpoint (and perhaps UAUA's shareholders), what counts is $$$ coming in today (or this fiscal quarter/year) and how it affects cash flow, earnings and balance sheet. To the degree that they can bring in $$$ vs. cashing out miles, the decision is becoming obvious.

The hard part in all of this is trying to demonstrate to UA that the ability to use miles has real value to UA. UA's loyal customer base is there in part due to their loyalty program. To the degree that the customer base becomes disillusioned with the program, the value drops and there is a real $$$ impact to the company. Unfortunately, this is all intangibles and very difficult to measure. Such is the state of affairs.

lucky9876coins

Ah, but depends how good you are at searching. If you want to go from LAX to SIN, for example, just searching "LAX-SIN" on the ANA tool wont get you very far. If you're resourceful and search leg by leg you'll usually have much better luck.

xpacific

Agreed. Business class saver awards are not anywhere near as available on UA as they were in the past (even mid-week). I just booked a saver award in FC to Asia since Biz Class had zero availability on all carriers (even with many seats left to sell).

Even when space opens up 48 or 24 hours before departure, so what? The return is still going to be zero'ed out (even if the biz cabin is wide open) so you have to book economy for the higher miles and then hope something clears before you had back. Ugh!

GolfTravelr

I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, however, I have nearly always found biz saver seats on the routes and dates I favored. Alternatively, in the odd instance that a UA routing was not available, I was able to secure *A routing and times that fit my needs. I always call the Intl. reservations line, later in the evening to avoid the ICC and have found the agents to be extremely helpful, patient and knowledgeable. Typically, I make reserveations about 2-3 months in advance. I have never tried to book awards online. YMMV.

TravelinWilly

The miles are nothing to UA because UA has nothing to do with them. MP has them. There is no liability to UA associated with MP miles in your bank.

When we go to use miles, MP pays UA money (yes, real money) for the seats. Our cashing in miles for a seat IS $$$ coming in for UA today, albeit at a discounted rate from a full-fare ticket (or discounted, ticket, etc.). UA makes less money from MP for a saver award than they do from, say, a regular award. UA's risk is the tradeoff between selling full fare tix, discounted tix, upgraded tix, and award redemption tix, how many, and at what time thresholds. What sucks for us in trying to redeem them is that the 'cheapest' seats we want (usu. awards in premium cabins) are so tightly restricted/managed and not available as often as we'd like.

Will

blueman2

You want to fly to Japan? You can fly Y, C or F in saver award pretty much any day you want! Go SFO-NGO. Always LOTS of availability. One of the last great saver routes!

aerokitty

Agreed! Now, if they would only partner with JR West to provide code-shared Shinkansen service to Osaka and Tokyo just like LH partners with Deutsche Bahn to provide connecting service out of FRA...

Mike Jacoubowsky

Exactly what the 2P was facing a few years ago. Which brings up something interesting.

If the "bad things" that happen to 2Ps will eventually filter up to the rest of the elites, wouldn't it make sense for the upper elites to watch out for us a bit more?

I was composing this as a humorous post initially, but the more I think about it, the more I believe there's something to it. Don't wait until the bad policies & decisions make their way up the ladder. Stomp them out where they begin, at the lower elite levels. With support from 1P, 1K & UGS folk, a "United front" as it were, the world could be a better place for us all!

But don't worry, the lowly 2P will not only respect the red carpet, we'll even police it for you. And when we hear someone in line utter something disrepectful about what makes "them" so special, we will, as always, turn to them and suggest that, for the miles they're often forced to fly, it's the least the airline can do for them.