DullesJason

ButIsItArt, I love that username!

simong

DJ-Awesome post, can you state where *A Golds slot into the process?

DullesJason

Well it wasn't my first post--somewhere around my 120th, but who's counting? I joined and first posted in January. I've enjoyed FT and wish I had more time for it.

YES, this confirms a IK/1P/2P would "officially" be entitled to an op-up over a UGS on NC. "No double upgrades" is a policy that is repeated over and over again. But then again, there are exceptions to everything and there is a lot of secrecy with the UGS program so I will not say it won't happen. If there is a UGS in C on B fare and holding NC, and no other elites in C (rare) and one C seat is needed then the UGS would get the u/g (Y-NC-F) over non-elites, most of the time.

Z fare is sketchy. I mentioned in another post some agents specifically target full fare C ahead of higher ranking elites on D/Z fares, so putting status in paid biz regardless of fare basis is not a hard and fast rule, while agents that selectively bypass non full C elites to u/g lower ranking full C elites are not doing something that is frowned upon. It's cool.

fzwinter

Hats off to DJ for a highly-informative post. I wonder if "the speech" is now destined for mothballs

DullesJason

It certainly should be. Maybe this is how I will "change the world." LOL

You lost me there. What do all these acronyms mean? Sorry I can't keep up here!

Simply put, it's policy." When the company determines this is an initiative it wants to push, there is a tendency not to be very flexible, but I think it should always be offered on int'l flights at least. You'd have to ask a finance type why it's cheaper for them to do it with dbc free than vouchers, and certainly it is cheaper, else they wouldn't do it.

If you're going Y-F on a 2-cabin, it's the gate agent. If you're doing Y-F on a 3-cabin, it could be any random idiot.

#10

DJ,

I concur with the earlier poster who praised your prose. The tension was palpable as we approached time to close the door. It also gives me a much greater appreciation for the combination of exasperation and desperation I hear from the GA when there is a 15 person line asking whether they need to check in again or how they would like to move their seats.

Keep the great insights coming and best of luck on your new adventures!

Mike Jacoubowsky

As I mentioned, I've had more than my share of op-ups, and have generally cleared on upgrades pretty well. But as many of my prior posts have pointed out, it's the iron-butt UGS and 1K folk who pay the bills! They deserve whatever gets thrown their way, unquestionably.

In an earlier post you mentioned how easy it is to achieve 2P status ("two annual trips from the east coast to Japan and you're in"). For some that may be true, but for those of us who don't have jobs that require that we fly, and don't have the means (or time) to take frequent and/or long-distance vacations, it requires a fair amount of reorganization of how we do things. Flying UA isn't always the most-convenient, and certainly not the least-expensive way to travel. But the 2P benefits are enticing, in particular the E+ product for those of us who might not enjoy having that seat in front of us in solid contact with our knees the entire flight.

Thanks for the enlightenment, and I'm glad I don't appear to be guilty of too many of the cliches you mentioned. The only thing I may benefit from, from time to time, is a willingness to wait until the boarding procedure is almost completed instead of giving up early on the chance of an upgrade. Seems like simply being there, being available, without making a scene... no real downside to it (other than losing out on overhead space, which usually isn't a problem for me).

DullesJason

No, Star Gold is after 1P, but before 2P. That's how United's computer ranks Star Alliance in the elite. Again, that's not to say some agents don't skip *G to get to 2Ps before making their way back up the list for *G. Should be rare though.

Looks like it still does.

Thank you Stripe.

I wonder about their experiences too. Everyone's experience is different, yet there are many experiences we all share. And unfortunately they were usually was shared loudly in the break room. It was hard to eat dinner in relative quiet.

Mike Jacoubowsky

OK, I'll ask because nobody else has the guts to.

Does the Gate Agent see whatever notations are made in our records? As in, notations that somebody may have been less-than-nice to a CSR at some point etc? And if so, what sort of things might be found in those records? And how seriously are they taken by the GA?

In a former life, my wife used to work for a famous-name drugstore (now defunct/merged) and discovered the pharmacists had a customer logbook that had a space for entries that consisted of a number of asterisks. They were called "aggravation fees." Certain types of behaviour merited a certain number of asterisks, each one resulting in an extra $.50 on the prescription. One * was the penalty for strumming your fingers on the counter while waiting, and things went up from there.

Obviously UA wouldn't have anything like that going on, most certainly not in any sort of electronic system that could be held accountable. But just wondering if there is something that might warn you that somebody might not be taken as genuine if they claim that such-and-such is the first time it's ever happened to them etc.

DullesJason

The fog is lifting! Beautiful post. Someone obviously gets it. You can't control it--you just improve your odds by improving your status. Yes, there is a lot of peace in that realization.

Picking the right flight is HUGE! Status is "huge-er" obviously. LOL to dim and top 10. Along the lines of improving your odds, perhaps saying a *quick* hello to the agent and never letting on you have even the slightest interest in getting something for nothing. But this *only* works if you have status. Life isn't fair. Have peace with it. I do. I'm not even 2P; I've been getting my miles through CCs, Netflix & Hartwick & Grove! ^

Sure I can. I have devoted a very late evening to FlyerTalk. No, UA doesn't keep no-show stats on individual customers to my knowledge. But if they do, it wouldn't matter--they wouldn't be stupid enough to ban you from buying tickets from them as long as your no-show doesn't violate ticket rules.

The biggest indicator in the reservation would be a booking that's not ticketed. Lots of no-shows from that. But then again lots of these people are savvy travelers and just show up with an open paper ticket that has not been "ticketed" in the record. Another indicator would be lots of itinerary changes in the history against a relatively low number of segments. Full fare one-way tickets, etc, all of these are indications of a possible no-show. This kowledge doesn't help or hurt you, it just means the agent may wait until *after* you check in to do your op-up (if you're high on the list) rather than risking doing an op-up for a possible no show, only to have to undo it later and cause more work later down the line when you're busiest.

bobes

thanks for the great post and PM reminder...

very interesting read.... in the specific example that you've noted, a 1P on the upgrade waitlist (willing to spend miles, certs, etc...) will be trumped by a 1K who would've been quite content with his E+ seat. Am I reading that correctly?

ozweepay

Wow... great post. FTers are generally geeks who love details like this, so I'm sure you'll be an instant hero!

I have a couple of questions:

1) Non-revs. If a non-rev is in F or C and you are in the situation you described in your first post, how does that affect the picture? Will you pull them back from F (say) to put a UGS on a C fare into F?

2) What if you do your dance perfectly, get everyone on board, and then the flight takes a delay (wx, mx, whatever), and some of the misconnects start to show up? I've seen non-revs pulled from a flight 30 mins after scheduled departure so that late connecting pax (UA to UA) could have their paid seats in C.

3) What do you do if you must choose a 1K from Y to bump to C and they are both on the same fare basis? Then you look at the clothes, right?

But seriously... what's the tiebreaker if it's a complete tie? Alphabetical? Random?

IceTrojan

That was brilliant, and what FT should be all about. I tip my hat to you sir.

A vote for TalkMail?

xpacific

Jason, your excellent post has confirmed my winning strategy all along... (note that the info below is probably irrelevant if you are not 1K)

1. Book into oversold Y flights where C and F are wide open. This is easier to do than you can imagine. From SLC my near-monthly trips to Japan offer all kinds of alternatives... via LAX, SFO, SEA, ORD, and even via HNL into KIX, NGO or NRT. Without fail, one or more of these flights is jammed in economy with business class wide open (generally this is due to some big China travel tour or some group who bought out the cabin). Tools like ExpertFlyer are very useful to identify these flights, as is simply calling the 1K reservation agents and asking them to look at all of the loads for a potential op-up situation.

2. Don't check bags, and then only ask for the boarding pass to the international gateway city (SLC-LAX for example). Why? Because the stressed-out gate agents at the gateway city are going to op-up you while you are on your way there. They know you are on the flight, that you will be coming up to the desk anyway, thus you are an easy fix to their in-the-hole problem. On the other hand, if you already have a Y boarding pass, they have no idea if you will be easily paged!

3. Go directly to the gate... do not wander off to the RCC, etc. Ask the gate agent for your boarding pass as you forgot to get it when you checked in before.

Last, but certainly not least, even with the op-up boarding pass in hand, if you are flexible in getting to your destination, offer to take a later flight in the upgraded cabin and politely ask for a gate-issued paper SWU as compensation (they are much more useful to me than $ bump-vouchers, etc.). I have done this many times, for example taking SFO-KIX-HND instead of the direct morning SFO-NRT flight.

Hope others find this info to be useful.

DullesJason

You're right and achieving 2P is big deal if you don't travel much. As I mentioned in a previous post in this thread about the value of 2P, it's more than it seems and I think no 2P should regard it as lowly. You might be the least towering among the elites, but at least you're towering. Look at me, I'm not only a lowly SA traveler, these days I have to do it with a companion pass--even more lowly than the employee "non revenue space available" traveler I used to be.

I mention in that post that priority standby can be a Godsend during irregular operations. And as you mention, Y+ is pretty handy isn't it?