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-   -   Non-rev pilot programs computer to save time (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileage-plus-pre-merger/530536-non-rev-pilot-programs-computer-save-time.html)

LarryJ Feb 26, 2006 5:11 pm


Originally Posted by UnitedSkies
These are unions you're talking about after all

Yes, I know. I've been a member of three of them in the past 15 years. I've never seen a union object to anything like this. There is no reason to object.

PremExecSNA Feb 26, 2006 5:27 pm

Aside from safety/union/etc. concerns here, I look at this from a customer service perspective.

Here we have a company that just emerged from an ugly bankruptcy and is trying to win in a highly competitive environment. The deadheading pilot, who also has a stake in UA's success, shows some initiative by preparing the flight, thus reducing the delay to customers. The customers recognize the extra care and may well tell others and/or remember that next time its time to purchase air travel.

This is exactly the kind of work that United needs from all employees. As a previous poster wisely pointed out, you'd expect this kind of approach from a WN pilot. It is a refreshing departure from the "not my job, I'm on my own agenda" we've seen too often from the airlines in the past.

Congratulations to that pilot for doing the little things that count!! ^ ^

UnitedSkies Feb 26, 2006 5:28 pm

I agree with PremExecSNA, but let's step back a little and see how or why some people would object to this. Perhaps the pilot who was trying to help did something wrong, or missed a step - then the finger-pointing game starts.

Could that be a potential reason?

rockdoc Feb 26, 2006 5:41 pm

I have seen this happen several times although while flying Continental. Continental has a late flight IAH-DEN (leave around 9:00 PM) and is known as the "crew flight" because it is typically filled with FA's and pilots on their way back home to Denver - a remnant of the days when CO had a hub in Denver. On several of these flights I have seen off-duty pilots head to the flight deck to pre-program and pre-set things for a late arriving crew. No one has ever seemed to have a problem with it and from what I gather most of the crew on these flights know each other quite well and thus are comfortable with this being done as they want to get home on time as much as anyone else.

kcvt750 Feb 26, 2006 6:29 pm


Originally Posted by wimpypipsqueak
While taxiing, the captain apologized for the delay, and thanked the other UA pilot that had saved them at least 15mins in programming the computer. ^

:cool:

........unless the earlier pilot had united.bomb tech training. :eek:

woodway Feb 26, 2006 6:47 pm

Remember too that the captain who was helping out is going to be sitting on the flight, so he has a reason to get it right. I say thumbs up! ^

theo144 Feb 27, 2006 9:22 am


Originally Posted by woodway
Remember too that the captain who was helping out is going to be sitting on the flight, so he has a reason to get it right. I say thumbs up! ^

Fully agree with this statement, the guy surely had a good reason to get the FMS right ^ ;) ^ ^ ^

UALPilotDC Feb 27, 2006 11:18 am

To all,

While not common for a deadheader to do this, it also isnt all that rare/prohibited. And certainly not a "union" issue.

Like others have posted, it is up to the working crew to verify everything that was entered. I am sure that the deadheading Captain briefed the pilots on just what he had done to facilitate the departure.

Probably the biggest time saver was loading the position into the FMC so the IRU's could align. An alignment process that takes 10 minutes. Also he could have pulled up the current departure ATIS/ desitnation ATIS/ ATC clearance via PDC...all on the ACARS. Little things that don't take long to do but when added up can save a couple of minutes. But again it is the repsonsibility of the new crew to VERIFY VERIFY....

Many times, when we bring in an airplane that is doing a quick turn, I will try to set up the following crew with radio freqs, initialize the ACARS (and pull up the above mention items) and possibly even begin the IRU alignment. I wouldn't load the route because: 1) I dont have a copy of the flight plan and 2) I might not be qualified on that aircraft (in the case of deadheading)and 3) Some things are better left done for the working crew to do to ensure a safe flight. All depends on how quick of a turn they are attempting. And others have done the exact same for me.

Hope that helps.

DC

wimpypipsqueak Feb 27, 2006 11:55 am


Originally Posted by UALPilotDC
To all,

While not common for a deadheader to do this, it also isnt all that rare/prohibited. And certainly not a "union" issue.

Like others have posted, it is up to the working crew to verify everything that was entered. I am sure that the deadheading Captain briefed the pilots on just what he had done to facilitate the departure.

Probably the biggest time saver was loading the position into the FMC so the IRU's could align. An alignment process that takes 10 minutes. Also he could have pulled up the current departure ATIS/ desitnation ATIS/ ATC clearance via PDC...all on the ACARS. Little things that don't take long to do but when added up can save a couple of minutes. But again it is the repsonsibility of the new crew to VERIFY VERIFY....

Many times, when we bring in an airplane that is doing a quick turn, I will try to set up the following crew with radio freqs, initialize the ACARS (and pull up the above mention items) and possibly even begin the IRU alignment. I wouldn't load the route because: 1) I dont have a copy of the flight plan and 2) I might not be qualified on that aircraft (in the case of deadheading)and 3) Some things are better left done for the working crew to do to ensure a safe flight. All depends on how quick of a turn they are attempting. And others have done the exact same for me.

Hope that helps.

DC

Thanks for the info. The deadheading pilot did brief the captain, show him printouts etc. Certainly seemed to save 10-15 mins off the usual time it takes to get an airplane ready for departure.

us2 Feb 27, 2006 12:11 pm


Originally Posted by UALPilotDC
To all,

While not common for a deadheader to do this, it also isnt all that rare/prohibited. And certainly not a "union" issue.

Like others have posted, it is up to the working crew to verify everything that was entered. I am sure that the deadheading Captain briefed the pilots on just what he had done to facilitate the departure.

Probably the biggest time saver was loading the position into the FMC so the IRU's could align. An alignment process that takes 10 minutes. Also he could have pulled up the current departure ATIS/ desitnation ATIS/ ATC clearance via PDC...all on the ACARS. Little things that don't take long to do but when added up can save a couple of minutes. But again it is the repsonsibility of the new crew to VERIFY VERIFY....

Many times, when we bring in an airplane that is doing a quick turn, I will try to set up the following crew with radio freqs, initialize the ACARS (and pull up the above mention items) and possibly even begin the IRU alignment. I wouldn't load the route because: 1) I dont have a copy of the flight plan and 2) I might not be qualified on that aircraft (in the case of deadheading)and 3) Some things are better left done for the working crew to do to ensure a safe flight. All depends on how quick of a turn they are attempting. And others have done the exact same for me.

Hope that helps.

DC

It helps a lot. I hadn't even thought of IRU alignment time as an issue, so this makes even more sense to me.

tann1001 Feb 27, 2006 1:00 pm


Originally Posted by qasr
While it worked out nciely for that flight, I can't imagine such a thing is SOP. Anyone with a fake ID badge reporgramming a trip computer?! Wouldn't sit too well with me and I'd hope that the actual crew would spend some time to make sure everything was kosher.

If you are going to worry about somebody with a fake ID badge re-programming the flight deck computers, why dont you worry every time you board a plane... anybody with a fake ID and uniform could actually attempt to fly the plane posing as the captain?

VPescado Feb 28, 2006 7:40 am


Originally Posted by tann1001
If you are going to worry about somebody with a fake ID badge re-programming the flight deck computers, why dont you worry every time you board a plane... anybody with a fake ID and uniform could actually attempt to fly the plane posing as the captain?

Except he would need a fake id with the assigned crew members name, would need to make sure that the crew member he was replacing did not get to the gate or alert the airline that he was not going to make it, and not have chosen a crew member that was known by sight to the other crewmembers ("Hey you aren't Captain Jones!").

All in all, a very unlikely scenario without a lot of inside assistance.

thegingerman Feb 28, 2006 8:51 am


Originally Posted by VPescado
All in all, a very unlikely scenario without a lot of inside assistance.

Unless it was in an episode of 24!!


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