FAA wants more flight reductions at ORD
 

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040728/airlines_delays_2.html

Well it looks like the FAA wants airlines at ORD to cut down on flights again.. Obviously AA & UA are the biggest targets.. Let's just hope that other airlines don't do what they did last time and use this as an opportunity to add more flights to and from ORD. The article does say that 12+ other airlines are gonna have to be at the meeting too. Maybe there's hope these delays at ORD will start to get better.

Just run 772s, 744s, and 763s everywhere. Less flights, more pax, more comfort. Everyone wins! :D

Just finished watching an early 2001 episode of "Extreme Machines" on Discovery HD Theatre about ORD. Neat stuff about how the place operates.

Still hate the airport, though. :)

Blame AA! Somebody move a couple banks of mainline back to STL!
 

A major (claimed) reason for AA's purchase of TWA's assets was to have a third mid-continent hub in STL to relieve congestion at ORD and DFW.

Of course as soon as they could get away with it, AA axed most of the ex-TW staff and gutted the STL hub, since like every other AAcquisition, the TW purchase was really aimed at "reducing industry capacity." Note that there was no SFH @ ORD during 2002 and 2003 when AA still had 200+ mainline flights running out of STL.

Capacity-wise, STL used to support TW's hundreds of nonstop mainline departures every day plus a major WN base. A third (stupidly expensive IMHO but that's another story) 30/12 runway is slated to open in 2006. We have some weather issues, but IME nowhere near as bad or frequent as those at ORD. Plenty of gates vacant, like virtually the whole D concourse!

While I'd love to see UA make this move, AA is much better positioned to do it.

Of course an even better (from the pax perspective) solution would be massive reductions in RJ ops at ORD and upgauging more mainline flights so the average pax per departure/arrival slot goes up and the absolute number of ops goes down. Snowball's chance that happens.

Everyone deserves the blame here... AA and UA for giving up slots WITHOUT THE FAA cutting up the new carrier slots for the same peak times... FAA for not doing real peak hour slot allocation at ORD years ago.

Although the drawdown at STL deserves some blame, let's place it where it truly belongs: The a-hole politicians who have delayed the much-needed expansion of ORD for far too long. Along with the a-holes who bought houses all around ORD and now complain about its expansion.

Still more blame must be placed on the FAA for failing to prohibit the backfill by Independence, Spirit and OAs which have added lots of ORD flights this year after UA and AA both reduced their schedules TWICE already this year. :mad:

I'm hoping that UA and AA tell Mineta to shove it.

As an aside about STL de-hubbing, DFW has picked up much more of the AA expansion resulting from the realignment of STL than has ORD.

Well said!!! ^

FWAAA, you took the words right out of my mouth. This is exactly what I was thinking when I opened this thread:


This whole "stop flying so much" garbage from the FAA is ridiculous. Meanwhile we have a few homeowners in Elk Grove Village who cannot take the noise of airplanes flying over their houses yet refuse to give up their property and move somewhere else, and of course the arsehat politicians champion these resistees as the whole group effectively places a chokehold on the area's economic growth in the coming decades.

It reminds me of the twits who lived in NY under the Concorde's flight path that celebrated with champagne on the day of the last flight because it meant the end to their noise complaints; never mind the fact that those planes effectively infused billions upon billions of dollars into the American economy. That would be silly!

And yes, I understand that the influx of regional jets aren't making matters any better, but even going from RJs to widebodies would only be a temporary fix to a long-term problem.

One day, I'd just like to hit chicagotribune.com and read a front-page story of how Daley sent bulldozers in the dead of night to carve land for new runways at O'Hare with the same gusto he had for destroying Meigs.

Why not decrease RJ's at peak hrs, replace with mainline?
 

My personal observations in and out of ORD this summer have been that there are too many small A/C to/from popular 'regional' destinations (ORD-STL, ORD-EWR, ORD-LGA for instance) at peak hours. These planes are almost always at capacity or oversold. Why not change to larger A/C on these routes/at these times, thus decreasing numbers on the taxiways or cycling?

This will also aid during summer hours when weather-related flow control seems the norm in this area of the country ... more timely departures even if A/C metering is constrained?

RJ's seem reasonable for non-peak hours, not mid-afternoon to mid-evening when peak travel occur.

If anything, this will please the higher-paying business traveler who typically flies at this time of the day ... more comfort, especially in Y! Leave the RJ's for leisure travelers who want the convenience of mid-day flights.

Comments?

kinda of funny how you mention the loss of dollars in the economy...and the loss of Meigs in the same sentence.

I think Meigs was extremly valuable to the Chicago business comunity and what Daley did was borderline criminal, but this is Chicago and its always ben Daley's way.

Don't get me wrong, the improvements around Chicago due to Daley are fantastic, but some of his methods are questionable

I agree that the destruction of Meigs was entirely a self-serving interest. The "we did it for security" context was a joke and everybody knows it.

However, I don't think even Daley is so much of a dictator so as to plow down a few houses one night, so we can all rest assured that it'll be a good many years before we recognize any expansion at O'Hare.

I've noticed on a lot of routes that I fly to 'minor' markets (HPN, PVD, IND, etc.):
UA flight leaves. Within 30 minutes AA flights leave. Maybe even a TZ or WN flight to MDW within that same time frame.
Then a gap of a few hours, and another wave of 2-4 flights all from the same city to Chicago.

In an ideal world, UA and AA would be allowed to codeshare those flights, and drop two RJs in favor of one jet. Instead of 5x50 UA seats and 5x50 on AA, you would have something like 2*120 UA and 2*110 + 1*50 AA. Capacity increases by 10 pax, while number of flights are cut in half. The available flight times are essentially the same as what they were with RJs. And each airline could still sell the same amount of seats.

Another take on this would be to bring in true regional airlines that would fly as the regional affiliate for multiple airlines. Thus both UA and AA could sell seats on the flights without official knowldege of what the other is doing. the regional could fly the appropriate jets, ranging from RJs to Boeing and Airbuses as appropriate.

I would love to see mainline return on HPN as I commute to it. Reduce from 7 RJs to 4 Mainline like we had. PVD is a big market and should NOT have RJs. Oh, by the way, Many of you know I am NOT an RJ fan. It is clogging ORD.

How to solve the problem
 

Wholeheartely agree that regionals are clogging O'Hare.

FAA should take the extra Delta, Spirit, I-air flights that were added... and make them revert back to their Feb 1st flight numbers. I-air should fly into midway.

Need to come up with a formula which encourages airlines to fly larger aircraft into O'Hare. Don't know how to penalize smaller aircraft, but something needs to happen so O'Hare can continue to grow.

International aircraft should have highest priority for getting in / out delay free.
Domestic widebodies should have next highest priority
Domestic mainline flights should be next
Regionals should be last.

give airlines a reason to put a widebody into Chicago, and pull the widebodies from non-conjested airports like Tampa, etc. Sorry Madison, but some frequencies would be reduced...

Yes, like Independence Air's dozen IAD-ORD flights using 50 seat RJs... especially when they are running under 40% load factors in June(excluding non revenue standby travellers - even including, it's under 50%).

Unfortunately, a few years ago, ORD became another "non-slot" restricted airport. I do not know the details, but I think that maybe only DCA is restricted by slots (where do law makers fly into?) The assumption was that the slack initiated by AA on de-banking flights a few years ago, and then the subsequent UA/AA reductions would not be picked up by DL/HP/TZ/DH/ foreign flagged carriers.
Well, I guess we all know what happens when we assume.


Found and article on history of ORD with this paragraph...
"Meanwhile members of Congress -- motivated by difficulty in getting nonstop flights back to all 435 Congressional districts -- were expressing increasing frustration with the impact of flight-limiting "slots" on Ronald Reagan National Airport in Washington, and other high-volume airports including Kennedy, LaGuardia and O'Hare. As the reauthorization bill for airport and aviation funding was debated during 1999 and early 2000, getting rid of the slots was debated back and forth with Illinois Senator Peter Fitzgerald at one point holding up the entire business of the Senate with a filibuster threat until leadership deferred consideration of the issue. But ultimately Senator Fitzgerald, Congressman Hyde, and suburban O'Hare opponents were bitterly disappointed as Congress passed a bill which would eliminate slots at O'Hare by 2002."

I do think at least 1 of the NYC airports has slot restriction's still on em...not sure which, or if both do.

Politicians!