Alcatraz A320: CSR Imprisons PAX on Broken Airplane, UA 589 PHL-ORD (1/31)
#31
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Americas
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Isn't the Captain #1 in charge?? Seems crazy that a CSR can dictate who gets off the plane.
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: KAUS
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 1,118
The Pilot was apologetic but a little guarded when we spoke in the pizza line. What I understood from the conversation is that he was within his rights (and duties!) to ignore the CSR and get the passengers off the plane, but that this was "the nuclear option" as far as the ground staff was concerned, and that he expected that reports would be filed and some discussion would occur up the chain of command.
In fact, defending the Pilot's decision, which was absolutely the correct one, was one of the reasons I decided to post here.
#33
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Did you think about calling a local TV station? Maybe the local newspaper?
#34
Join Date: Oct 2003
Programs: UA 1K, HH Gold, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 223
Thanks for sharing this, and good job standing up for yourself and walking off. I once spent about four hours at a gate (before the new rules, and in Canada) and wish I had stood up to the CSRs and walked. I wound up missing Thanksgiving dinner because of that delay.
I hope you also file a DOT report on this one. Even if the delay is technically within the letter of the rules, the DOT needs to see screwups like this.
To the UA reps who are surely reading this: please get rid of that gate agent.
I hope you also file a DOT report on this one. Even if the delay is technically within the letter of the rules, the DOT needs to see screwups like this.
To the UA reps who are surely reading this: please get rid of that gate agent.
#35
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: KAUS
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 1,118
After I got off and was getting my new boarding pass at my new gate, I said to the agent that "somebody's going to call the local TV if they don't do something fast". She was a little taken aback. (The rebooking was a CO flight.)
#36
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central SC
Programs: Former Co Plat, current Premier Platinum, former US CP
Posts: 196
Gotta Ask
I've gotta ask, "Doesn"t UA/PHL have a station manager?" Was this person totally "AWOL" while this was going on?
#37
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MBS/FNT/LAN
Programs: UA 1K, HH Gold, Mariott Gold
Posts: 9,621
I don't think there is anything illegal about no compensation as long as it's voluntary. The pax might have thought that an early flight was enough for him to forgo monetary compensation (however, he likely didn't realize he had leverage to ask for more than just an earlier flight!). In VDB, as long as both parties agree to the terms, it's legal.
LAX
LAX
#38
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,684
Write the DOT a note with the timeline. UA may face fines of up to $27,500 per passenger if anyone was forced to stay on the plane for more than 3 hours. Even if they're not fined having that conversation with the DOT may prompt UA to work on their staff selection, improving service in the future.
Sounds like it was not handeled well, and should be an issue for the carrier, but it in no way falls under the govt's regulation. It is best to inform yourself first prior to filing nusance complaints with a regulator when the regulator does not regulate the scenerio. Let them use their time to regulate things that they have jurisdiction over.
The OP got off the plane. This is different than being locked on a plane with no useable exit. The OP stated others got off the plane. Again, different than being locked on without an exit. An issue for UA, yes, an issue that is regulated by the DoT, again, no. They have specific language in there to prevent complaints like this from bearing their scrutiny.
#39
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MBS/FNT/LAN
Programs: UA 1K, HH Gold, Mariott Gold
Posts: 9,621
Might want to read the legislation. Cabin door open, at the gate, is NOT the same as locked up and on the tarmac. Regulations have very specific language that can either hang someone, or let them off the hook. No laws/rules that the DoT has issued would apply here.
Sounds like it was not handeled well, and should be an issue for the carrier, but it in no way falls under the govt's regulation. It is best to inform yourself first prior to filing nusance complaints with a regulator when the regulator does not regulate the scenerio. Let them use their time to regulate things that they have jurisdiction over.
The OP got off the plane. This is different than being locked on a plane with no useable exit. The OP stated others got off the plane. Again, different than being locked on without an exit. An issue for UA, yes, an issue that is regulated by the DoT, again, no. They have specific language in there to prevent complaints like this from bearing their scrutiny.
Sounds like it was not handeled well, and should be an issue for the carrier, but it in no way falls under the govt's regulation. It is best to inform yourself first prior to filing nusance complaints with a regulator when the regulator does not regulate the scenerio. Let them use their time to regulate things that they have jurisdiction over.
The OP got off the plane. This is different than being locked on a plane with no useable exit. The OP stated others got off the plane. Again, different than being locked on without an exit. An issue for UA, yes, an issue that is regulated by the DoT, again, no. They have specific language in there to prevent complaints like this from bearing their scrutiny.
Casual/noob travellers see very little difference between a door lock and a GA portraying things like:
caused her to double down on her demand that nobody could leave the plane without her permission
the jail warden CSR shouted at me, claiming that I was not allowed to leave the aircraft ("You can't just walk off an aircraft!")
She continued to insist that I was violating the rules
#40
Join Date: Oct 2003
Programs: UA 1K, HH Gold, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 223
...Regulations have very specific language that can either hang someone, or let them off the hook. No laws/rules that the DoT has issued would apply here.
... it in no way falls under the govt's regulation. It is best to inform yourself first prior to filing nusance complaints with a regulator when the regulator does not regulate the scenerio. Let them use their time to regulate things that they have jurisdiction over.
... it in no way falls under the govt's regulation. It is best to inform yourself first prior to filing nusance complaints with a regulator when the regulator does not regulate the scenerio. Let them use their time to regulate things that they have jurisdiction over.
#41
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,684
While you might be right about the first point, I completely disagree re: the second. Filing complaints like this is the best way the DoT has to find out where their existing regs are lacking and motivate them to issue better regs in the future. I suspect DoT already has the authority they need to issue those regs. If not, they can ask Congress for it. But, either way, it's better to file the complaint and let DoT see what's happening in the field.
I'm all for regulations when it comes to safety/security, but artifical regulations for comfort (beyond the consumer's real regulations of who/where to spend their flying dollar at/on) have costs that often outweight the benefits, unless you count the benefits as "catering to political lobbies", in which case, the benefits to the legislaters is immence.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Nothing comes for free and increased costs/risk of artificial penalties influences behaviors in unpredictable and often negative ways.
Last edited by fastair; Feb 3, 2012 at 4:05 pm