GimmeLegRoom

I was being somewhat facetious, but you make sense. More and more I read these stories, and witness firsthand how foreign travelers are left to cope with unsympathetic airlines, I feel sorry for anyone who isn't armed with FT, or mastery of English, to have to stand up for what they are entitled to (both in terms of CoC and general decent human interaction). Sad.

I still think after all the contact thought with the OP, they'd realize they have someone who is going to persevere until the end.

surftb15

I have heard back from the DOT - they spoke to UA with the customer relations director.

My best course of action is small claims court. Another traveler on my plane also contacted DOT and UA also offered him only $400 in cash. He did not accept, and I won't either.

A lot of the problems with this IDB mess stems from the merger. Both airlines have a completely different IDB policy and there is ambiguity in their language. They still have yet to consolidate the rules, so most employees don't know where to go. Continental's policy provides travel vouchers up to the full amount of ticket, whereas United is more willing to provide cash compensation. Both policies follow DOT rules, but do so in a different manner. The employees are still unclear what rules to follow - which is why there has been so many discrepancies in my case. This is one small thing overlooked when merging both airlines.

Small claims court is the next venue. For now, $400 in cash is all they are going to offer. The manager thinks that $400 is more then enough as "I can travel anywhere in the country with that voucher". Oh well. I am still not going to take it.

DOT asked to use my story in their monthly newsletter, as it shows a lot of missteps - slow communication, not providing passenger bill of rights when IDBed, etc. That may help them settle up. For now, small claims court is the next logical option

fastair

If (and I don't believe it is so) CO's policy for IDB's allows them to not pay cash (or check) money for an IDB of over an hour, I don't know how one could say it is within DoT rules. DoT rules are very clear, and that policy would NOT be within the rules. From the DoT's consumer web page ( http://airconsumer.dot.gov/publicati...tm#overbooking ) "Airlines may offer free tickets or dollar-amount vouchers for future flights in place of a check for denied boarding compensation. However, if you are bumped involuntarily you have the right to insist on a check if that is your preference."

Co's own CoC ( http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...e.20110915.pdf ) states "4)
Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarily
a)
For passengers traveling between points within the United States, subject to the exceptions in section c) below, CO shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of USD 650 if CO offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight; and if CO offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, CO shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of USD 1300." ..."b) CO
may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of monetary compensation due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and CO informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation."

So in a nutshell, nowhere does it state CO has the right to NOT give you cash/check for IDB except in the exempted situations such as an operational reduction in capacity/downsize, it only states that if you accept, they can offer you travel credits in excess of the cash/check value. This is in line with DoT rules. For a "covered IDB" (over an hour, not cuased by a few exceptions, and psgr complies with all of the rules re:checking in and boarding), the DoT mandates cash/check unless agreed by the passenger to accept vouchers.

The DoT often fines airlines for such repeated violations. http://www.dot.gov/affairs/2010/dot14610.html

uwr

I'm sorry that you got trapped in this situation.

This episode reflects extremely badly on United's customer service. It shows a lack of commitment to fairness and to following company policy and federal regulations.

There is a huge loophole in that the DoT does not seem to be able to enforce their regulations by levying fines. All they seem to be able to do is embarrass the airline with a newsletter item.

In contrast, the DoT can fine an airline $27,500 per passenger for excessive tarmac delays. A flight with 250 passengers would be subject to a fine of almost $7 million. Airlines respond to that type of penalty.

fastair

I believe the DoT's newsletter I linked just above this, included a rather large fine for Comair. I know of no carrier that has yet to pay a fine for excessive tarmac delays to date.

uwr

They have changed their practices to avoid the fines.
It would add teeth to the IDB regulations if fines were a possibility.

fastair

That may be, as I didn't find anything as a follow up story. What usually happens with the DoT on consumer protection violations is they assess a fine, and the airlines negotiate a lesser fine, usually earmarking some of the money to training and updating of rules/systems to fix the problem. At the same time, they are usually required to sign a consent decree (as part of the lesser fine negotiations) with the DoT which then subjects them to strickter regulation (rules/oversight/penalties) and if the action continues, they are nailed harder.

WN was also hit with a $200k penalty last year for denied boarding practices.

Fines are a possibility, otherwise, why would the DoT issue press releases of fines assessed and the regulations written to allow imposing of fines. To say that fines are not a possibility is a very incorrect statement.

channa

I think they do have the ability to levy fines. DOT levies fines for all sorts of consumer issues. UA last year was hit with a fine for not updating baggage limits in materials printed after the rule change. And they were also hit for not displaying required taxes as part of the initial price on the website.

I wouldn't assume this case won't result in a fine. DOT tends to aggregate reported incidents and then hits the airline. Remember the airline can refute the charges and fight or settle. So having only one charge makes it more difficult for DOT to prevail. But if they have more charges, that could indicate a pattern, strengthening DOT's case and the likelihood the fine will stick or the settlement will remain worthwhile.

Flying Machine

Very Interesting Thread. Sorry to hear the OP's saga with this situation. I would have assumed, after speaking with the DOT there would have been clear compensation to close the issue. DOT said to go to "Small Claims"? This is where I am confused ( just read this complete thread ) One would assume DOT is the last leg in this communication process. Did their Bark not Bite? I guess Im missing something. In any event. I surely hope it all works out for you in the end. Safe Travels..

uwr

My assumption about fines could have been wrong. I can't understand why UA would risk a fine and not resolve the situation when contacted by the DOT.

It's either that there is bad management or that the potential fine is not high enough, or both.

I misread this - my apologies.

I suspect that a fine of $200k-$250k is not high enough for United to change its practices. If their current practices save them $400-500 per IDB passenger, they could make up such a fine with just 500 IDB passengers.

Of course, that doesn't take into account the possibility that UA could get a higher fine and that it doesn't want to be embarrassed by the bad publicity.

In contrast, the $27,500 fine per passenger is so high that airlines likely take great pains to avoid excessive tarmac delays.

fastair

I agree with you completely, but even the DoT website link I earlier provided mentions ultimate setlement by an individual should be directed to small claims courts vs the DoT's sweeping method of finding a pattern and then fineing, which provides nothing to the individual consumer. Perhaps the DoT doesn't have the ability in it's charter/regulations to provide consumers with more than advice and to act as an ombudsman. I am not aware of the DoT ever providing a consumer with a direct payment or forcing an airline to pay an individual, much the same way the BBB can't force payment, but only provides resources. Seems to me something that would require a much larger DoT workforce, but something that may be welcomed by the flying taxpayers.

colpuck

The DOT has the power to fine the airline, but they won't provide any relief to the passenger.

I am not sure small claims court is the way to go either. Most small claims courts have limited jurisdiction. Depending on the court where the passenger lives, such a court might not have subject matter jurisdiction over a claim litigated under the code of federal regulations. Also there is a question as to whether or not the CFR gives the passenger a private of action to re-claim the amount listed in the CFR.

I think filing DOT complaints, twitter and facebook is a good way to go. It seems like the only thing airlines understand is public shame.

mikeef

I know you said you don't have time to take them to small claims court, but I hope you make an exception, since it looks like they owe you 4X your fare. Even better, I hope you are in Boston so I can come watch!

Mike

username

I wonder if anyone from UA's Customer Relations is monitoring this and fear opening any precendence. OP might want to hold off posting anything until a satisfactory resolution is reached.

PTravel

A complaint to the DOT is fine, but here's a fun idea: small claims court. I don't know where you live, but in most states the jurisdictional maximum is $5,000 and lawyers are not allowed to represent the parties, meaning that Continental/UA will have to send an officer or director. Most likely they'll default (actually, most likely is they'll send you a check), and you'll get your judgment which you can record and then enforce against CO/UA by putting them into receivership.

I'm just saying.