Zones are gone, Boarding by row starts 11 May
May 3, 2011, 9:38 pm
#136
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Haven't seen anyone mention that CO typically starts boarding 40 minutes (+/-) before scheduled departure. I've flown perhaps 20 times on UA of late and have yet to see them deviate from the 30-minute clock. Perhaps we'll finally get our choice of preflight beverages in FC on UA since the FAs will now have an additional 10 minutes (I suspect) to serve them. I really dislike the water/juice tray, and have had FAs snottily refuse to serve me anything else preflight when I drop a hint.
May 3, 2011, 9:41 pm
#137
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
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May 3, 2011, 9:45 pm
#138
Ambassador: Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 7,390
Personally, I don't really care much about this, but I am just going mention my opinion...
I would like if it was something like what DL does, where they have dedicated zones for certain customers...
So something like this:
F/C
GS/1Ks/1Ps
2Ps/Star Golds and Silvers
Economy cabin by rows or zones
The current UA system is really counter intuitive except for GS/1Ks/F/C customers... It is just wrong to publish "priority boarding" benefits for 1Ps/2Ps and Star Golds, then give them the middle finger once they start zone 3...
I am a 1K/Plat here, and I am happy for the other elites who have been "disinvited" from using the red carpet for years...
So, on overall, I think this is a more of a positive change rather than a negative change... Now if row boarding does not work well, they can easily revert back to zone boarding or make some cosmetic changes to the process...
I would like if it was something like what DL does, where they have dedicated zones for certain customers...
So something like this:
F/C
GS/1Ks/1Ps
2Ps/Star Golds and Silvers
Economy cabin by rows or zones
The current UA system is really counter intuitive except for GS/1Ks/F/C customers... It is just wrong to publish "priority boarding" benefits for 1Ps/2Ps and Star Golds, then give them the middle finger once they start zone 3...
I am a 1K/Plat here, and I am happy for the other elites who have been "disinvited" from using the red carpet for years...
So, on overall, I think this is a more of a positive change rather than a negative change... Now if row boarding does not work well, they can easily revert back to zone boarding or make some cosmetic changes to the process...
May 3, 2011, 9:46 pm
#139
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,394
If the CO system works better, why does CO start boarding the 737s 35 minutes prior to departure whereas UA boards A320s and 752s 30 minutes before departure?
If the CO system works better, why does CO start boarding 753s (with 216 seats) at 40-45 minutes before departure and UA starts boarding domestic 767s (244 seats), domestic 777s (348 seats) and 747s (374 seats) 40 minutes before departure?
If CO system works better, why does CO start boarding its widebodies 60 (!) minutes before departure whereas UA only allots 40 minutes?
All of this while UA maintains #1 on-time.
You can dislike UA's boarding system all you like, but facts are facts and the UA system shows itself to be more efficient.
Meanwhile, now that we're shifting to the CO method, legacy UA fliers will find ourselves sitting on planes even longer waiting to push back. Yet another change I think I'll like...
If the CO system works better, why does CO start boarding 753s (with 216 seats) at 40-45 minutes before departure and UA starts boarding domestic 767s (244 seats), domestic 777s (348 seats) and 747s (374 seats) 40 minutes before departure?
If CO system works better, why does CO start boarding its widebodies 60 (!) minutes before departure whereas UA only allots 40 minutes?
All of this while UA maintains #1 on-time.
You can dislike UA's boarding system all you like, but facts are facts and the UA system shows itself to be more efficient.
Meanwhile, now that we're shifting to the CO method, legacy UA fliers will find ourselves sitting on planes even longer waiting to push back. Yet another change I think I'll like...
May 3, 2011, 9:53 pm
#140
Ambassador: Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 7,390
And guys, the #1 on-time performance comment is annoying the bugger out of me... UA is not #1 for on-time departures, they are only #1 among the four or five largest airlines...
Hawaiian and Alaska are almost always at the very top...
Hawaiian and Alaska are almost always at the very top...
May 3, 2011, 10:02 pm
#141
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May 3, 2011, 10:04 pm
#142
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May 3, 2011, 10:06 pm
#143
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: EWR, BDL
Posts: 4,471
Whts tht supposed to mean? Let me guess ur not happy tht the New UA decided to keep CO colors ? Keeping CO boarding method? Keeping CO row numbering system? Those silly childish advertisements are going away?
May 3, 2011, 10:16 pm
#144
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ORD & MKE
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I'll just say I don't give a rats @$$ when I depart, on time or not, just as long as I arrive on time or earlier.
May 3, 2011, 10:16 pm
#145
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: DCA/IAD
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Posts: 497
I don't really care if they board by rows or zones, as long as 1P boards before that mess. I'm active duty military, but no way I'm flying in uniform unless I have a tight schedule that day and/or make a same-day turn. Board by cabin, then upper elites, *G and then whatever else.
Oh and I've never understood CO's numbering system. In an age where you can select seats online and check seatguru, who cares how the exit row is numbered?
Oh and I've never understood CO's numbering system. In an age where you can select seats online and check seatguru, who cares how the exit row is numbered?
May 3, 2011, 10:18 pm
#146
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ORD & MKE
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May 3, 2011, 10:19 pm
#147
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,685
UA agents are expected to baord any aircraft in 1/2 of the minimum service time (a late turn as we call it where the inbound is late and they are trying to make up time.) when we had 737's that was 1/2 of 30 min, or 15 min (and that includes the closing of the flight, pulling of the bridge, and break release.)
A 757-200 has a 50 min min, so we are expected to board it and have in gone in 25 min, and that includes the rare times we need to use door 1 (the one next to the cockpit).
I am betting the minimum service time for a 757 300 would be longer, perhaps an 55 min-1 hour, so we would be expected to do it in 27-30 min. Failure is not an option for most of us, we take pride in delivering what we advertise, which includes a schedule.
Heck I work some XE E-145's. We expect (demand) the flight attendant's to be ready for boarding 3 min after they are on the plane, or the last passenger is off is there is no crew change. The same crews for XE that have worked the CO express side take 15-20 min their 1st few trips on UAX until they learn the tricks (preparing the galley on the previous flight's approach, resupplying while the flight is boarding...) Part of that may be learning the different galley, as I can't believe they take that long when flying on the CO side!
Yes a 757-300 is about 20% bigger. I would expect the servicing of the aircraft, which includes boarding, to take a bit longer than a 757-200. There is no way in hell that I would ever need 45 min. Now be assured, the 25 min board/push time for a 757 is usually done not solo, but with 1.5 agents (1 agent for the whole gate time of the flight, a 2nd to assist tag bags at the end. If coworkers at nearby gates have no trips, they might even make it a full 2-2.5 agents if they wanted to help.)
If defense of him, boolean64, any widebody can be boarded in far less time per passenger than a narrow body. A 767, 747, or 777 can easily be boarded long before a 757. The 2nd aisle speeds up the passengers, and storage space on most widebody flights (4 bins per row vs 2 on a narrowbody) also makes the boarding much faster. So to compare widebody vs narrowbody capacity and times is like apples and oranges, while both fruits, they are not all that similar. If you add a 2nd boarding agent and a 2nd door, it can even be done in far less time then a narrow airbus.
A 757-200 has a 50 min min, so we are expected to board it and have in gone in 25 min, and that includes the rare times we need to use door 1 (the one next to the cockpit).
I am betting the minimum service time for a 757 300 would be longer, perhaps an 55 min-1 hour, so we would be expected to do it in 27-30 min. Failure is not an option for most of us, we take pride in delivering what we advertise, which includes a schedule.
Heck I work some XE E-145's. We expect (demand) the flight attendant's to be ready for boarding 3 min after they are on the plane, or the last passenger is off is there is no crew change. The same crews for XE that have worked the CO express side take 15-20 min their 1st few trips on UAX until they learn the tricks (preparing the galley on the previous flight's approach, resupplying while the flight is boarding...) Part of that may be learning the different galley, as I can't believe they take that long when flying on the CO side!
Yes a 757-300 is about 20% bigger. I would expect the servicing of the aircraft, which includes boarding, to take a bit longer than a 757-200. There is no way in hell that I would ever need 45 min. Now be assured, the 25 min board/push time for a 757 is usually done not solo, but with 1.5 agents (1 agent for the whole gate time of the flight, a 2nd to assist tag bags at the end. If coworkers at nearby gates have no trips, they might even make it a full 2-2.5 agents if they wanted to help.)
If defense of him, boolean64, any widebody can be boarded in far less time per passenger than a narrow body. A 767, 747, or 777 can easily be boarded long before a 757. The 2nd aisle speeds up the passengers, and storage space on most widebody flights (4 bins per row vs 2 on a narrowbody) also makes the boarding much faster. So to compare widebody vs narrowbody capacity and times is like apples and oranges, while both fruits, they are not all that similar. If you add a 2nd boarding agent and a 2nd door, it can even be done in far less time then a narrow airbus.
Last edited by fastair; May 3, 2011 at 11:06 pm
May 3, 2011, 10:23 pm
#148
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 39°51'31"N 104°40'23"W
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Posts: 1,071
I just want an airline implementing things that makes sense, values frequent and high revenue flyers with efficiencies and comfort, gives a reasonable and safe travel utility to the Kettles, gives service with a smile, communicates with it's customers frequently and honestly, and doesn't lose checked bags.
funny, but really if you think about it finding that in an airline these days is a pretty tall order!
I couldn't care less really about most of the things you mention. UA is just a tool I use, nothing more nothing less. If the tool becomes less efficient, I'll find another tool without even blinking and I have no delusions that UA would miss me even for one second. They wouldn't.
In light of all this, I don't really care whose boarding system it is, I just want the one we use to work. When I fly CO, their boarding process takes longer and they allow longer, period.
I actually may employ a new strategy in general on airlines which I mentioned to a UA VP several years ago. As an elite, I should be able to board last. I don't want to sit on the plane and have people climb over me and bags bumping into me, etc etc. I rarely have anything but a small shoulder bag when I travel, so I don't even care about overhead space. I want to relax and fight no one, and be alerted the moment before the gate closes, and whisked to my gate on a buggy and board last as the door shuts. That is elite treatment. That is what you get in Asia on airlines like TG or SQ or EK etc etc. Anyway I digress. Just saying it has nothing to do with CO or UA or fanboys or fangirls. It's just about picking the best/most efficient way to board.
May 3, 2011, 10:36 pm
#149
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
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UA agents are expected to baord any aircraft in 1/2 of the minimum service time (a late turn as we call it where the inbound is late and they are trying to make up time.) when we had 737's that was 1/2 of 30 min, or 15 min (and that includes the closing of the flight, pulling of the bridge, and break release.)
A 757-200 has a 50 min min, so we are expected to board it and have in gone in 25 min, and that includes the rare times we need to use door 1 (the one next to the cockpit).
I am betting the minimum service time for a 757 300 would be longer, perhaps an 55 min-1 hour, so we would be expected to do it in 27-30 min. Failure is not an option for most of us, we take pride in delivering what we advertise, which includes a schedule.
Heck I work some XE E-145's. We expect (demand) the flight attendant's to be ready for boarding 3 min after they are on the plane, or the last passenger is off is there is no crew change. The same crews for XE that have worked the CO express side take 15-20 min their 1st few trips on UAX until they learn the tricks (preparing the galley on the previous flight's approach, resupplying while the flight is boarding...)
Yes a 757-300 is about 20% bigger. I would expect the servicing of the aircraft, which includes boarding, to take a bit longer than a 757-200. There is no way in hell that I would ever need 45 min. Now be assured, the 25 min board/push time for a 757 is usually done not solo, but with 1.5 agents (1 agent for the whole gate time of the flight, a 2nd to assist tag bags at the end. If coworkers at nearby gates have no trips, they might even make it a full 2-2.5 agents if they wanted to help.)
If defense of him, boolean64, any widebody can be boarded in far less time per passenger than a narrow body. A 767, 747, or 777 can easily be boarded long before a 757. The 2nd aisle speeds up the passengers, and storage space on most widebody flights (4 bins per row vs 2 on a narrowbody) also makes the boarding much faster. So to compare widebody vs narrowbody capacity and times is like apples and oranges, while both fruits, they are not all that similar. If you add a 2nd boarding agent and a 2nd door, it can even be done in far less time then a narrow airbus.
A 757-200 has a 50 min min, so we are expected to board it and have in gone in 25 min, and that includes the rare times we need to use door 1 (the one next to the cockpit).
I am betting the minimum service time for a 757 300 would be longer, perhaps an 55 min-1 hour, so we would be expected to do it in 27-30 min. Failure is not an option for most of us, we take pride in delivering what we advertise, which includes a schedule.
Heck I work some XE E-145's. We expect (demand) the flight attendant's to be ready for boarding 3 min after they are on the plane, or the last passenger is off is there is no crew change. The same crews for XE that have worked the CO express side take 15-20 min their 1st few trips on UAX until they learn the tricks (preparing the galley on the previous flight's approach, resupplying while the flight is boarding...)
Yes a 757-300 is about 20% bigger. I would expect the servicing of the aircraft, which includes boarding, to take a bit longer than a 757-200. There is no way in hell that I would ever need 45 min. Now be assured, the 25 min board/push time for a 757 is usually done not solo, but with 1.5 agents (1 agent for the whole gate time of the flight, a 2nd to assist tag bags at the end. If coworkers at nearby gates have no trips, they might even make it a full 2-2.5 agents if they wanted to help.)
If defense of him, boolean64, any widebody can be boarded in far less time per passenger than a narrow body. A 767, 747, or 777 can easily be boarded long before a 757. The 2nd aisle speeds up the passengers, and storage space on most widebody flights (4 bins per row vs 2 on a narrowbody) also makes the boarding much faster. So to compare widebody vs narrowbody capacity and times is like apples and oranges, while both fruits, they are not all that similar. If you add a 2nd boarding agent and a 2nd door, it can even be done in far less time then a narrow airbus.
This is very interesting. Not only does CO have longer board times, it seems they have longer turn times, including express, and I believe CO's GA staffing is higher as well.
May 3, 2011, 10:56 pm
#150
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,685
As a side note, anyone have any experience with the rumored "no-agent automated boarding system" that was being tested overseas and in IAH? I've read/heard nothing about it and am curious as to it's strength's/weaknesses.Another difference at least at ORD is that when both UA and AA evacuate the ramp when lightening has struck on/near the field, CO continues to work outside and receive/dispatch planes. Has nothing to do with the thread at hand, but I see it every storm. I've seen a plane get struck with a mechanic in the tug by lightening. The plane was find, but the path of least resistance for the current wet through the tow bar into the tug and fried the mechanic. If I recall, he survived, but I believe he died of complications a few months later...not worth it IMHO to work with metal in a lightening storm where you may be the grounding wire (Jim Goodwin was on that plane too!) This is one thing where I sure as heck hope we don't adopt CO's way!
Last edited by fastair; May 3, 2011 at 11:05 pm