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Change to *A Award routing rules (Effective 11 FEB 2011)

Change to *A Award routing rules (Effective 11 FEB 2011)

 
Old Feb 14, 2011, 12:43 am
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by IslandSkies
Yes you would pay the higher Europe to South Asia rates. On top of that, NRT (Japan) is a different region from BKK (South Asia) and Europe-South Asia has a "Higher Award" for travelling through a third region so to Thailand through Japan you're looking at 170k in First.

MPM-wise IAD-FRA-NRT-BKK falls in the 10M range.



Okay, I like to help but I can't keep answering each individual routing/mileage question here. I would like to answer more general questions but I can't spend my life being the personal res agent for everybody. Please just call reservations with your questions and if you feel the agent doesn't know what's going on have them check the relevant profiles.
my question is that both reservation centers for HK number and at India are not aware of the rule that one can do a stop over + open jaw on awards ticket with a different region.

1. how long does it take for it to be fully effected?
2. what is the defn of region? In UA award chart, there are 13 regions. so. the regions are defined exactly as in those 13 regions?

ie. if i go from south asia to Japan, that one can do both stopover + open jaw. is it corrected? Thanks.
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Old Feb 14, 2011, 12:38 pm
  #62  
KVS
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Originally Posted by pbd456
Thanks. so. how would UA handle it?
You would need to use a combination of 2 separate fares (or, in this case, awards, unless MP rules provide otherwise).
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Old Feb 14, 2011, 1:03 pm
  #63  
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Originally Posted by pbd456
my question is that both reservation centers for HK number and at India are not aware of the rule that one can do a stop over + open jaw on awards ticket with a different region.

1. how long does it take for it to be fully effected?
2. what is the defn of region? In UA award chart, there are 13 regions. so. the regions are defined exactly as in those 13 regions?

ie. if i go from south asia to Japan, that one can do both stopover + open jaw. is it corrected? Thanks.
Regions are defined exactly as the regions in that chart. Came to work today and the profile for star award routings has changed *again* and stopovers is showing only valid for rt. Sorry folks.
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Old Feb 14, 2011, 7:45 pm
  #64  
 
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QUESTION:

In the past the agents would use MPM unless an airline offered a routing-based fare. If there was a routing based fare, you could use that instead. For example, LH offers a routing-based fare of DEL-FRA-DME (5100 miles). The MPM for this route is just 3200 miles. Can the passenger still get this for one award using the LH fare rules or do we need to buy two tickets since it busts the MPM? If the rules have moved to an all MPM basis, this is terrible! There are a ton of routes which will no longer be possible using one award.
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 3:04 pm
  #65  
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Originally Posted by cmhua777
QUESTION:

In the past the agents would use MPM unless an airline offered a routing-based fare. If there was a routing based fare, you could use that instead. For example, LH offers a routing-based fare of DEL-FRA-DME (5100 miles). The MPM for this route is just 3200 miles. Can the passenger still get this for one award using the LH fare rules or do we need to buy two tickets since it busts the MPM? If the rules have moved to an all MPM basis, this is terrible! There are a ton of routes which will no longer be possible using one award.
We now use MPM only but now you can go up to the 15M band (up to 15% over the MPM). We no longer use published fares as a basis.
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 3:17 pm
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by IslandSkies
We now use MPM only but now you can go up to the 15M band (up to 15% over the MPM). We no longer use published fares as a basis.
*A newbie question.
I am looking for a one way business award from DAC to RGN (via BKK). As far as regions go, it is from South Asia to S. Asia and should be 15K one way in J according to the award chart.
Agent wants to charge me twice that amount for 2 separate segments.
Why is that?
Thank you.
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 3:21 pm
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Paulchili
*A newbie question.
I am looking for a one way business award from DAC to RGN (via BKK). As far as regions go, it is from South Asia to S. Asia and should be 15K one way in J according to the award chart.
Agent wants to charge me twice that amount for 2 separate segments.
Why is that?
Thank you.
Don't know for sure until I'm back at work. Could be more than 15% over MPMs from DAC-RGN maybe?
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 3:24 pm
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by IslandSkies
Don't know for sure until I'm back at work. Could be more than 15% over MPMs from DAC-RGN maybe?
How does one calculate MPM?
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 3:28 pm
  #69  
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Originally Posted by IslandSkies
Came to work today and the profile for star award routings has changed *again* and stopovers is showing only valid for rt. Sorry folks.
Ah, well. Maybe it was too good to be true.
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 9:17 pm
  #70  
 
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Originally Posted by IslandSkies
We now use MPM only but now you can go up to the 15M band (up to 15% over the MPM). We no longer use published fares as a basis.
This is terrible! This makes a huge number of city pairs invalid now. For example, LAX - AKL (which many people fly UA to SYD/MEL and then connect) will no longer be under the MPM. SYD will be OK with a 15% grace, but a stopover in MEL busts it (despite paid tickets allowing MEL as a connection/stopover point).

LAX-SCL is not possible through IAD-EZE/GRU: the traditional way if you want to fly mostly UA (and the routing that UA has published for paid tix).

ORD-Europe-NRT would no longer possible (even though you could do this before for a slight premium on miles).

There are so many of these examples that, if true, you could no longer do because of this rule. Also, MPMs aren't published for all routes, so wonder how UA will handle this?

If this gets enforced, this will probably be the single biggest devaluation of the award program, for me, to date.

Last edited by cmhua777; Feb 16, 2011 at 12:09 am
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 9:30 pm
  #71  
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Originally Posted by cmhua777
This is terrible! This makes a huge number of city pairs invalid now. For example, LAX - AKL (which many people fly UA to SYD/MEL and then connect) will no longer be under the MPM. SYD will be OK with a 15% grace, but a stopover in MEL busts it (despite paid tickets allowing MEL as a connection/stopover point).

LAX-SCL is not possible through IAD-EZE/GRU: the traditional way if you want to fly mostly UA (and the routing that UA has published for paid tix)..

ORD-Europe-NRT would no longer possible (even though you could do this before for a slight premium on miles).

There are so many of these examples that, if true, you could no longer do because of this rule. Also, MPMs aren't published for all routes, so wonder how UA will handle this?

If this gets enforced, this will probably be the single biggest devaluation of the award program, for me, to date.
People did post that there would be a catch.
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 11:07 pm
  #72  
 
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Originally Posted by cmhua777
This is terrible!
No it's not.
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 12:50 am
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by IslandSkies
Don't know for sure until I'm back at work. Could be more than 15% over MPMs from DAC-RGN maybe?
That could be it (but something tells me a different agent may be able to help ticket this as these new rules haven't really made the rounds yet).

DAC-RGN has an MPM of 942 (+15% = 1,083). DAC-BKK-RGN is 1313 miles. Under the old rules that allowed the agent to take into account routing-based fares, connecting in BKK would be OK because TG publishes a fare that gives a specific route: DAC-BKK-RGN. Of course, for that same 15k miles you could fly DAC-BKK-PEK which is about three times as many miles, but such are the oddities of award travel.

MPMs are calculated off of the shortest operated mileage between city pairs. In general, this results in mileage that resembles a direct line between two points. This is not always the case, as IATA takes other variables into account when calculating MPMs, but you will find that a lot of Star routes in the not-so-densely populated parts of the world will not fit in IATA's MPM rules (hence why airlines publish routing-based fares). So unless you are flying a very direct route (which is often possible in the US/Europe but next to impossible everywhere else) you will find it hard to keep within the MPM rules.
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 8:13 am
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by cmhua777
That could be it (but something tells me a different agent may be able to help ticket this as these new rules haven't really made the rounds yet).

DAC-RGN has an MPM of 942 (+15% = 1,083). DAC-BKK-RGN is 1313 miles. Under the old rules that allowed the agent to take into account routing-based fares, connecting in BKK would be OK because TG publishes a fare that gives a specific route: DAC-BKK-RGN. Of course, for that same 15k miles you could fly DAC-BKK-PEK which is about three times as many miles, but such are the oddities of award travel.

MPMs are calculated off of the shortest operated mileage between city pairs. In general, this results in mileage that resembles a direct line between two points. This is not always the case, as IATA takes other variables into account when calculating MPMs, but you will find that a lot of Star routes in the not-so-densely populated parts of the world will not fit in IATA's MPM rules (hence why airlines publish routing-based fares). So unless you are flying a very direct route (which is often possible in the US/Europe but next to impossible everywhere else) you will find it hard to keep within the MPM rules.
It's my luck - missing this by 4 days and now requiring double miles!!
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 9:52 am
  #75  
 
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Once ticketed under the "old" rules (as of today), can it be revoked?
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