I don't think that's true. MRTC was never an upcharge, nor were the fares any higher. MRTC was AA's attempt to garner incremental bookings and loyalty (thus resulting in higher AVERAGE fares), but I think they quickly realized that it wasn't enough to offset the lost in seat density. This was before the age of ancillary revenue, so in a way, United went and decided to create an E+ section instead, and over the years, has found ways to monetize this cabin in a way that provided extra value to non-elites who wanted more legroom, while still retaining it as a valuable elite benefit. In the process, E+ became part of the UA brand.

I think we're almost talking about the same thing, just saying it differently. Sure, AA wanted increased bookings and loyalty. But my statement is certainly how I remember it. No, not an "upcharge," but certainly fares were affected. In fact, I thought AA specifically mentioned, at least in articles I had seen, that they couldn't justify it because they were charging higher fares for the same routes as competitors, and therefore never coming up on top of search engines. Like you said, the incremental additional revenues coming in didn't match that lost because of the seats that had to be removed.

Of course, while frequent travellers knew what they were getting, joe and jane traveller either didn't know, or even if they did, in their "let's get the cheapest price possible mindset," were not willing to pay the $10, $20 or $25 (or whatever it was for their flight) extra compared to the competition. And not only that, they probably didn't even see AA options as they weren't coming up on top.

AA did MRTC because their load factors were roughly 70-75% at the time. Removing a few rows from coach was not a big deal because they weren't filling the seats. And they were removing weight from the cabin which allowed them to fly a bit more cargo.

I was doing much of my flying on BA/AA then and can attest that their pricing on all the routes I flew on was competitive.

When load factors crept back up toward 85%, they did a SRTC (Standard....) mod to the aircraft and reintroduced the seats that they had removed. Some at AA wanted to use LRTC (Less....), but it was shot down by management.

Problem with that though, is that at least from DEN or COS, most TPAC flights on Delta in E are signifigantly and consistently cheaper (upwards of $500 to MNL/NRT). That right there eats up an $80 charge.... And I can certainly give a good college effort of drinking $80 in booze on a 12 hour flight..... Just sayin...

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DL certainly now has my attention for trips to Brazil... better connections for me from PDX. Hope UA is listening....

Delta and its partner network have a lot of contract options where I fly for work, so if and when I need to fly Delta it will be great that I can get the E+ experience. Guess it is time to read up on Delta's FF program and see if switching some business from UA to DL to maximize FF benefits is worthwhile.

Well you certainly remember wrong and not sure if you really had the experience either. AA was charging the same as UA and any other competitiors at that time. I certainly remember at those times AA was charging less than UA for going to Asia, there were also many sub $800 fares from ORD to HKG, (AA still have SEA-NRT and SJC-NRT at the time) that's what I wasn't even truly loyal to UA.

AA lost money from MRTC was because it was the entire coach, rather than UA E+ is only a fraction of Y, while still charging the same price. If you remember origianlly UA didn't upsell E+ at the time, it is truly for elite flyers only. Besides, UA even able to block middle for elites.

I'm UAL PE & Delta GM (Same thing...)
 

on a recent trip, Delta had cocktail napkins that read "Building a better airline, not just a bigger one." I have to admit, I'm getting pretty tired of hearing about the merger from UAL. In Delta First food was real food and they had internets available.

I don't know if Delta's Economy Comfort will hurt or help UACO's decision on whether to keep E+. Regardless, I think this will hurt UA elites chances of getting E+ for free, if it remains. If UACO decides to keep E+ it will only be if money can be made. Let's not forget the UA way of eliminating something is to announce something else as an "enhancement" so you don't notice what has been taken away.

If UA/CO decides to keep E+ on all aircraft you will see an announcement like this:

The new United is pleased to announce we are expanding Economy Plus to all our aircraft, including former CO planes. Our newly enhanced E+ section will offer the following benefits:

• POV Entertainment at your seat
• Free headsets
• Free beer/wine
• Upgraded BOB options
• Priority Boarding

Our improved New E+ will be available on UA flights for a charge of $39 to $89 one way. This charge will be waived for our GS, 1K, Plats, flyers and will be available at a reduced cost to our 1P, 2P, Gold, Silver members.

With Delta's announcement, I am sure UACO will follow very soon!

Regards,

RIP..

In case you haven't been paying attention, E+ already make a huge amount of money as it is.

I didn't know there was more than one...

50% more recline in addition to pitch. This is nice.

I would not, as even in Biz I never succeed to get more than 2 drinks on a longhaul flight.

But I like the idea of a better E+ cabin, elites pay but pay less, no more companions. Beats the unavailability of E+ on many Asia routes...

I have been flying UA specifically because of E+. (I'm tall, somewhat claustrophobic, and can't afford to sit in front.)

However, I live only 20 minutes by car from MSP, so having non-stops to both Europe and Asia from my home airport WITH more spacious seating might cause me to switch. Best of all, I wouldn't have to spring for a hotel if my flight was canceled due to bad weather at ORD or DEN. I could just rebook and go home to wait.

and for me if they take it away on domestic, I will be up for grabs. Just a lowly 2P, but not all on T fare codes.

I moved from NW to UA when DL got involved. Up to now I am happy, but it bothers me that most International flights are way sometimes way way cheaper on DL compared to UA. But I do have the E+ fall back position. That's still the case, but if DL comes out with an E+ equivalent, I might be tempted to go back although I am not a fan of the extra recline of the DL seats which take away the legroom that I so desperately need. But then I think about the lousy redemption possibilities with them, so there I am torn again.