EsquireFlyer

+1. No one even knows if the new CO is even keeping E+, not to mention the "ecerts galore" that fastair says people switching to AA will be giving up. Also, if most UA 1Ks are getting "ecerts galore," then I wonder what I'm doing wrong, because I only get like 1 ecert per year on average, and it's for an actual problem (e.g. shredded suitcase, or non-reclining business class seat), not for sneezing. Haven't some people gotten their MP accounts frozen for requesting too many "ecerts galore"?

mre5765

I agree with your reasoning.

IOW, we should expect that the 1K tier will be renamed to 1.2K ... the EQM qualifying limit will be raised to 120K EQM by 2013.

But the RJ-ization of the fleet, the inflation argument does not hold for those who got to 1K by EQS. Those filthy CRJ200s are expensive to fly.

eponymous_coward

I'm curious: is anyone in this thread (besides the one person who's already accepted a Plat challenge and got Gold status for the challenge) actually switching their business from UA to AA before seeing if AA will extend EXP?

It occurs to me that your cause is probably helped if you can show some actual business you're sending AA right now because of UA's shenanigans.

VA1379

+ 2. UA without E+ and stingy CS compensation (a la current CO policy of giving out $25-50 for major problems) will make AA look more favorable. AA does not hand out e-certificates for CS issues, but they give miles (which count towards lifetime status).

I average about 2 e-certs a year. This year, I got them for a broken a/c and losing space due to being seating next to a POS on a transcon flight. Some people complain excessively, and others run into some bad luck where everything goes wrong at once. Most of my flights this year have been good with only two misconnections due to weather and mechanical problems on one trip.

Also if the new UA adopts CO's policy of UDU, where upsells to F and C are more frequent (leaving fewer seats for actual elite upgrades), it will make elite status on UA less attractive. It might make business sense from UA's perspective, but it'll make more sense for me to fly on AA.

SQPPS

We have already achieved Sapphire on BA and face the reality now that we are just going to have to pay for C and F class tickets. For us this means putting all the miles onto LX and BA programs. Hopefully we can have Emerald and HON status. The straw that broke the camel's back was zero for three on SWUs. GVA/IAD and vv and then an LAX/SIN. Sorry but I will not pay, unless I HAVE to, for substandard service on UA, gross food and old planes with NO curtains separating F and C.

If we get Emerald comped on AA through this plan here, then we will just drop BA and credit to AA.

EsquireFlyer

I had a great meal on my last UA flight. And there was a curtain separating F and C as well as one for C and Y.

Can't argue with old planes and service that is "substandard" compared to BA, SQ, etc. though.

SQPPS

Exactly...we are the people UA should be trying to keep! Many of us are people who regularly buy high fares and fly quite a bit with UA. I hope that AA or perhaps another OW program if AA doesn't work out, will welcome us gladly.

denCSA

I sincerely hope that AA stands firm (as I believe it will) in not allowing a 1k mass induction to EXP. The last thing the AA program needs is to be bogged down with the incessant "inflight reading light broken, flight was 5 minutes late, didn't get my meal choice, etc.' complaints for e-certs that the UA board is infamous for.

If fliers are unhappy with UA, you need to let UA know (i.e. complain) the way you guys know best, not by artificially watering-down the AA program until UA meets your demands then flop back over to UA leaving the dAArk side in your wake.

Derrico

First the Ecerts thing with end with CO. Not to say you wont get anything, but not with the ease received with UA.

Secondly, if they drop E+ there will be a mass exodus of people from UACO, so if you really think they are going to do that jump ship quickly or you will just be one person in a sea of peeps knocking at AA's gate. I personally think they will keep it and extend it to all planes.. Just my opinion. The model seems to work.

StarAllianceFanatic

Fastair, you need to understand this is cumulative. On the changes in UA/CO Elite benefits thread you mentioned loyalty....well, let's see about that....

For 2010 I personally have made connections in ORD/IAD on more expensive flights at less convenient times rolling up to 180 EQS probably half of which have been on UNSAFE Express flights half of whom are in bankruptcy with no galley, nothing but beer I wouldn't even use to put out a fire with, no carry-on space, no entertainment system and on time averages of about 70% and cancellation rate of over 10% all while I could have been flying for less, in first, every hour or so from one of my key destinations in 2010 (Atlanta). Not to mention having to leave my client two hours earlier on Thursdays to fly United which translates into a lot of lost revenue. Did I mention that the RCC in Atlanta has been closed for a few years? Between my team of 35 and me, there has been an average spend of over $1.1M each of the last few years. I fly Y and F, and I allow my team to do the same even if it comes out of my pocket and bottom line because even the 1K's on my team miss on more UDU's than they hit on. I have been a 1K for as long as I can remember. I can count the number of op-ups, successful SWU's on trips they would matter on, or exception service even as a GS on my toes. In 2008, I was at about 150K FF miles and 350K EQM all domestic. In 2009, I was at about 100K FF miles on CO and 65 on UA. This year I stopped flying Continental because of the merger and have 75K FF miles on UA. For that loyalty, I have seen others given GS or renewal to GS for lower miles and spend while I and many others get jerked around on renewal. One year they offer a DEQM promotion and flood the system with Elites, next year they raise it to 120 EQS which is by far the hardest most painful way to make it as an elite. Believe me 20 round trips from Boston to SFO, or one round trip a month to Asia/Australia is way easier than 2 plus segments per week on a crappy little CRJ2 or 7. And now CR1's are harder to earn so when you really want to upgrade yourself on a transcon or upgrade your spouse you have to use miles. Meanwhile, my wife who has no status gets better treatment as a GM on Delta than she does traveling with me on UA. Hands down her favorite airline is Southwest. So, I pay more for less. And really, for 1K's GS is total BS. There is no way to get that status based on EQM or EQS, but by some magic formula that seems to change by the minute and so now they have this large pool of travelers that are imposed on top of them status wise. At least EXP is based on miles just like 125K status on Delta. At least Continental based it on revenue.

I told UA point blank to tell me what I needed to do to get renewed with GS and whatever it is I'll do it. They wouldn't. They wouldn't give me a 50,60 or 75K threshold, they wouldn't say spend this much between now and XX/XX. That actually makes the United marketing department the most inept in American industry. To not even raise an eyebrow at the prospect of losing 35 1K/GS members who spent an average of $45K last year. THE ONLY thing that UA has that others don't is E+ and if UA is serious about keeping E+ why haven't they announced it???? What are they waiting for??? In fact, with the latest 'enhancements' for Elites, no where do they even say UDU's will continue and DL/CO had these years before United finally acquiesced to the pressure. Meanwhile, my number one complaint is that UA has completely blown off the domestic market. It is unthinkable to me that I have to fly RJ's from ATL, IAH, Florida, and they are creeping into markets like BOS, MSP, etc. These express carriers, as soon as anything goes wrong, you get the "we are not actually United excuse" for how they can't help you. I am pretty sure they need domestic passengers to feed their international flights, but why would that happen. I can go Non-Stop from Boston to Europe on LH, LX, BA, VS, Air Lingus, etc., and get superior service in every way, instead of connecting in IAD, getting bed bugs from the seat, having to listen to flight attendants gab in the galley, fly on a fleet of half converted aging airplanes. UA has to earn my Intl business, and at the moment they have a long way to go in that regard. Meanwhile, DL and AA still emphasize the domestic market...DL is actually expanding in that regard. UA seems so focused on the international market but, honestly, they are not competitive in that market going in any direction and where they can compete based on pathetic service, the domestic market, they don't give a rip about it.

I find it stunning as well that you would criticize Southwest, as you did on the other thread. Every year they rank at the top service wise on short hauls to alternate markets and airports and their customers get a good value, good service, and they have been far more profitable that UA has been in its wildest dreams. I feel stupid for paying $600 more for a 1-way transcon where you maybe get a sandwich made from Chicken grown at Homer Simpson's farm, have to beg for refills of beverages, alcoholic or non, have seats that have a pathetic amount of leg room and width and entertainment systems that 50% of the flight attendants don't know how to use or remember to turn on.

UA hasn't figured out this is NOT a race to the bottom and their ambition should not be to give US Air a run for their money. Loyalty is earned. Asking one side of the equation to do more, suffer more and deal with a negative trend while the other side puts their smarmy little CEO up on the monitor every flight to tell us how much we are going to like the changes. Guess what, those that don't like it on FT are about 50 to 1. This started in July for me with UA's misguided letters to GS members about renewal. I won't even go into the reason why some on my team refuse to fly UA all together. I have been an elite on DL, AA, UA, CO and several international airlines. Yes, the grass is not always greener but UA is slowly paving over the green grass on their side. Enough is enough. If UA is going to be as deaf as the TSA, they both deserve to be punished by the markets and customers they serve. If I were a stockholder and just observed the treatment of Elites and high-revenue passengers I would frankly be appalled.

JeffS

I wonder why people would admit to what amount to a waste of corporate dollars, but then I realize that people will do things like this because it benefits them personally. And they get away with it... for a while.

Why on earth would you lose revenue or pay significantly more for air fare, fly at inconvenient times, etc... when you obviously have better options. Are you such a slave to UA that you cant see the forest for the trees.

lancelot21

Amen! That's quite a fire-and-brimstone sermon and, though I'm not in your class as a traveler (or revenue source for UA), I can't say you're wrong, either. The trend, and the Orwellian double-speak about enhancements, bodes ill for the future. I thought I was a locked-in UA guy. For the first time in years, I'm rethinking it.

StarAllianceFanatic

I personally made a mistake in that I signed up for a trial Pass Plus account 1 week before the ridiculous GS renewal letters were sent out. It was a mistake and I don't recommend it to anyone because, just like me, the program can change drastically in six months. I have exhausted those funds and re-upped just enough to get me through the year.

Slave is such an ugly word, but I was being loyal to the airline believing they would treat me right. Instead I have found out they are out of KY as well as Chivas. I am much happier flying internationally where I do not use United and choose the best times and service and actually try to avoid the domestic / legacy carriers. But domestically, loyalty and status does matter with regard to boarding priority, service, IRROPS....at least it is supposed to matter. Lately it has not. In fact, this summer on about 6 out of 9 weeks I misconnected or had cancelled flights and couldn't get a seat in First which I had paid for even with GS status. Instead of having loyalty rewarded, UA spit in my eye and then with their 'enhancements' they did it again. With this trend, I will not be one of the many Sheeple saying "Thank you SMI/J, may I have another!" Even if I have to start from scratch with DL/AA, I'll do it because I'll pay for F anyway. United deserves a Freddy for most inept business model if they want to piss off customers like me in this economy.

mauiUAflyer

+1. Not every airline is a good match to each customer's needs. The trick is finding the airline that works best for your travel patterns. Maybe it isn't UA. No airline can be all things to all people. E.g., Southwest doesn't fly to HI, so I've never been on them. They are not an option for me. But for where I live now, and my two previous locations, UA did work quite well. YMMV. Good luck with finding a "best fit".

karung99

So far I like my UA and I will stick around a bit longer.

Jumping ship is not the answer, we all need to complain and demand some changing like we did earlier of the week.

Happy Thanksgiving and Safe Travel all.