kb1992

I haven't experienced anything like that on UA.

UA only offers buy-up at booking when NF>0.

My UDU success rate is more than 90%.

But, CO worries me....

sbm12

You don't have the wrong impression, just the wrong data on which you're basing it. The frequency with which anyone, elite or not, gets the opportunity on CO metal to buy up to F for less than the fare difference from their paid fare bucket to a fare that seats them in F on the segment in question is virtually nil. Claims to the contrary are supported with very little evidence. I'm not saying that it has never happened, just that it is not a commonplace occurrence and definitely not the norm.

I encourage anyone claiming otherwise to present a collection of data points to support that claim.
Loyalty only matters to the airline if it is also profitable to them. If it isn't, why not just take the cash?

If you're a 1K who gets there on cheap flights then you probably cost them more than you make them in fares. Why should that be rewarded? If you are buying higher fares then you are more likely to be rewarded for such, just like it should be.

emanon256

I am glad you haven't experienced it. I have not seen it on elite heavy routes, just on routes where there are very few elites. So maybe it varies based on what IM thinks they can get away with?

I would like to think they don't offer buy-ups unless NF>0, but I have seen it first hand several times, Ive had it confirmed by several GAs, and several people have reported it here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...d-threads.html

Sadly, I think this is part of the CO influence.

channa

The problem, and you know this, was that the logic CO is using for the TOD upgrades is flawed for COnnecting passengers.

Mapping fare buckets based on equivalent letters when there are wide variances between fares among different markets was the fundamental issue.

I understand what they were trying to do, but the implementation of it is where the unintended COnsequence COmes from.

I'm using the past tense deliberately because since the inception of the higher, and IMO, more appropriate Y/B/M fares, we've seen fewer TOD type upgrades, especially those that are grossly out of line.

I don't think the vast majority of customers were being offered unintended, low-cost upgrades in this manner. But I think the problem was big enough to be significant. Given the number of pax that CO flies around each day, even if they offered it to a significant minority of passengers, that could amount to a large number.

I'm not sure what your definition of "COmmonplace" is, but it doesn't take much to be a significant problem. Even a COuple percentage points on an operation of CO's size would be a few thousand a day.

ocn2ocn

My experience on UA is consistent with yours. The only time I tend to have real difficulty with UDU is very last minute reservations when the F cabin is already full. Otherwise, the success rate is pretty decent for a 1K.

sbm12

I agree (and have for some time) that there were probably unintended consequences of the implementation. I've disagreed about the significance of the volume of them.

CO flew ~14000 F seats last Thursday. Excluding the 76s and 772s there were only ~11600 F seats that day. I'm betting that well fewer than 10% of the total F seats were ToDs. The number of passengers affected isn't that large. Hence my statement that the frequency with which folks are paying pennies on the dollar for F seats is low.

raiachat

The upgrade situation with UA is as bad as the those posts that complain about the CO upgrades for 1k and 1p. I am CO platinum and get upgrades about 80+% of the time. On UA it is almost non existent. Booked a Y class fare a week prior to a flight with seats available in FC and never got the upgrade - was nbr 21 on the upgrade list. Never happens this way on CO for Platinums.
Both programs have issues and the UA website is horrible.

channa

On a percentage basis, that sure sounds small, but it's significant.

Even if we accept your fewer than 10% estimate (it could be more, it could be less, we don't know), fewer than 10% of 11,600 can be 1,000 or more per day. Extrapolate that over a year, and it could easily be a few hundred thousand. That's significant in my book.

The problem is with such high frequencies of flights and customers, even a small percentage of mishandling can be a large number of customers impacted.

ocn2ocn

I don't agree that most 1Ks are not valuable customers. In addition to my domestic travel -- some of which is reserved in advance at lower fares and some of which is reserved last minute at much higher fares -- I just purchased $7000 in international fares this week. If that's not good enough for this airline and they rather solicit non-elites to raise an extra $100, I'm clearly flying the wrong airline.