Labor agreements
 

Interesting item here on Continental's progress on labor agreements:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

Do these developments augur better labor relations at UA?

Let's hope. Happy employees lead to happy customers.

True dat!

In short, No. I 'think' that the pilots are the only groups negotiating a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement. Both companies committed to having a tentative agreement by Oct 5th....we'll see how that goes. The contract referenced in the above article are specific to the employee groups at CAL (I can say that for 7 more hours!). I think (there it is again!) that since the respective employee groups are represented by different unions they will have to vote on which union will represent the merged group, and THEN complete a Joint CBA. Since I have no solid information, treat this as a '40,000 foot view' of the situation.

Both pilot groups are represented by ALPA, and both groups were in the process of negotiating new contracts when the merger was announced. We got together, regrouped, and pressed forward to negotiate the Joint contract several months ago. Both companies and both pilot groups agreed to an aggressive negotiation schedule so we would have a TA by 5 Oct. If no agreement is made by that date we all agreed to seek mediation NLT 14 Oct. Conventional wisdom would have you believe that the company has a big incentive to get this JCBA so they can realize the true benefits of the merger. There will be no merged operations, integrated seniority list, or single operating certificate until the JCBA is in effect. To avoid this becoming a 'union' thread, I won't go into my opinions or share any other details on the progress beyond that. I hope this helps you understand the process going forward.

These types of negotiations (where two different unionized bases have to merge) rarely go smoothly. In fact, I can't think of a single modern example in which they have.

Negotiations for pilots' contract, a joint collective bargaining agreement in this case, are probably much less contentious than any other I've seen in the last 24 years. That said, I don't expect to see it anytime soon. Maybe as late as next spring.

Both groups are in dire need of vast improvements, and the companies know they can't cry broke, so it will happen. Some obstacles are that we will all end up on a common pay scale, but it will be a much smaller raise for CO pilots than UA pilots. CO pilots have a pension, albeit a frozen one. We have better work rules, they have better scope protection.

It's a forgone conclusion that we'll never, ever make the income we once had. It would take a 94% raise to put me back to 2003 dollars, never mind all the other 'gives' they took. That would just get pilots more stink-eye than we already get.

The big bargaining chip, I believe, is scope, aka our passengers on Alliance and Express carriers while we have real United pilots on furlough. It's gonna be a tough, costly, contentious genie to stuff back in the bottle, but I believe that genie will lose his toehold eventually.

Suffice it to say, no deadlines are going to be met. We will almost certainly go to mediation, almost certainly not to arbitration. That is almost normal in this kind of thing, and just seen as exploring all avenues. But in the big picture, I don't believe there will be any repercussions that are overt to you folks, with the possible exception of fewer and fewer flights with channel 9 turned on.

FAB

...and fewer hats worn...

Sounds like the small planes will be a big topic, what about the Aer Lingus deal?

Obviously they have to wait until the employees have chosen on a union before they can complete a joint CBA; however, per the WSJ article, UA has proposed (at least for FAs) using the CO contract. If everyone has agreed on the same contract management's part is pretty much over.

..which, lest we forget, pilots "took" at passengers' (and ultimately the airline's) great expense during SFH2000.

SFH: Never forget.

Hi Axey, haven't heard from you for a while, hope you are keeping well.

Totally agree with your comments.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the merged airline found it needed less very experienced pilots?

Interesting. So I put a completely neutral, fact based post on here and it STILL turns into a union bashing thread. I'm shocked:rolleyes:

I think you will find that the new UAL will find itself in need of additional experience pilots. And it will find that it must compensate them sufficiently if it ever expects to achieve it's stated merger goals.

I will take NO PLEASURE watching our customers ox's being gored (whether it be E+, CH9, or any other perk you like) so I find it perverse that some of you seem giddy at the prospect of watching employees suffer.

The mere fact that CO's JUST agreed to an interim agreement with the Machinists (who represent COntinental's FA's) [this just a few days ago] sets a bar for UA's FA's union the AFA.

The AFA is even labeling the Continental agreement as a step in the right direction.... "raise the bar for negotiations throughout the industry and improve our position for [joint] contract negotiations.

http://www.unitedafa.org/news/details.aspx?id=5796

There is NOT the bikering we have seen at other carriers. In fact the pilots unions are moving along and the mechanics are already the same union on both ends - ALPA will push for more in house flying of RJ's (something US didn't do) - which I think is the right direction. Skywest and it's predecessors are a right fit SOMETIMES - but it's clear some routes needed direct United control even if flown on RJ's

The main issue may be front line workers, where some at CAL are not unionized.

This is not going to be the mess that US Airways + America West has been and still is.

God I hope not! FWIW, some things are materially different with UAL and USAir now. First, we will not finalize our pilot seniority integration until the JCBA is completed. Only then will we have an integrated pilot group and thus an integrated operation. USAir did their seniority integration first, and when it didn't go well everything else went to hell in a hand basket. They still have NO JCBA and NO integrated pilot group/operation. They are not realizing the benefits of a merged airline. That is to everyones detriment. Our course at UAL will depend on managements recognition of our needs. They are scope, compensation, and quality of life. I can state unequivocally that we will not give a millimeter on scope. The bar is set very high for the rest of the contract and both pilot groups are determined accept only a solid contract. One other important point -- contrary to AmWest & USAir, the CAL & UAL pilot groups are working extremely well together and have common goals. I've been in this industry for ~14 years and the cycle is evident to anyone who wants to see it. Regardless of the compensation we agree to in our CBA, management WILL ask for concessions in any downturn. Even if we took a payCUT they would still ask for more in a downturn. And the sun sets in the west. Some things are unchangeable.

Interesting discussion, and fairly civil so far.

Out of curiosity, what does "scope" mean in this context?

Thanks

... except maybe higher fares ;)