LGA will just skip processing standbys if it puts an on-time in jeopardy.

Another great example of UA missing the forest for the trees.

Not an excuse, but a possible partial explanation. If it was later in the night, I think at least 1 gate went out of service and a few planes returned to the gate for other reasons (at least 1 mechanical that I know of) plus some diversions finally got into ORD and some gates that have been out of service for construction for a few weeks. Planes were sitting waiting for gates (as well as numerous gate changes as gates opened up and they put waiting planes in their spots vs the scheduled plane.) If there was a plane waiting for the gate that also had people on it that wee going to misconnect (say a whole plane load vs a few passengers for a few empty seats) the controller may have weighed the disservice to a few for not re-opening up the flight, vs the larger number of people that may have missed their connections by bot getting the next flight in.

Was there another plane that pulled into the gate 5-10 min after that plane left?


Again, it isn't an excuse as it doesn't excuse the inefficiency of the GA, but a partial explanation as to one reason why a plane with a few empty seats goes out without filling them.

As to the incentive for "on time"....well, I personally don't feel that is a very big motivating factor for me...you do what you can, try to follow the rules given to you...there are times to make exceptions, but those should be cleared with the controller first as diverting from the controllers plan can have some larger complications.


Sorry Mike, and yes, at ORD, all of the CS agents are all mainline, even those that work UAX. The same for the ramp employees. Only the flight crews on UAX at ORD are sourced by their operating carriers. The AM agents are mostly VERY senior at ORD as well...unless someone did a shift trade, it takes about 20 yrs "in class" to hold an AM line.


Edit: Ouch, this was this AM...just checked 5831, it wasn't last night but this AM. So the possible reasons I gave may not be applicable (or they may as well.)


Yes, as someone pointed out, Van Galder bus goes to the U of WI union (not to the airport,) and I believe if you need to go to the airport, the Van Galder desk can tell you what stop to get off...I think it is (from what a co-worker of mine from Madison has told me) about a $10 cab ride from an en-route stop.

They can invol refund that leg of your ticket....as long as it was a revenue ticket, it should more than cover the cost...just not the inconvenience.

This is what happens when employees and managers get bonuses for doors closing versus getting planes filled up. It is stupid and well...stupid. Please write and complain, that should not happen to you or any other paying passenger. I'm sick of leaving people behind for the all important on-time zero number so someone gets their bonus!

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Agreed. Part of the process of writing everything out here was to try and get all my thoughts collected in one place, and have people hold me accountable for them. Yeah, OK, therapy too. Better than punching a wall, right?

This was primarily the result of just two people. First, the agent who met our late-arriving plane from LAX who didn't bother to look up the info I gave her on my flight (when she told me to just go to the gate, I replied that the info was already gone from the screen, so it appeared the flight had already left... but she just said again to go to the gate without checking... I know better than that, so why I didn't immediately check the flight status on my iPhone I don't know). Second, that awful excuse for an employee who handled flight #5831. Oh, I should mention that, on board UA66 LAX-ORD, we were told not to worry much about connections, because "everything" was delayed. Um... that's not how it works for first-flights-out is it? If a plane is already in place, and the weather clears, it's likely to leave on-time (which is in fact what happened to a lot of flights for a lot of people on UA66).

Fastair: Sorry you had to read about what went on. Really, I am. I know how it is when I have to see the shortcomings of my own business exposed.

There weren't any extenuating circumstances that I could see for why he needed that plane out of there; there was no other plane lined up to come in, and from the screens it didn't look like that gate was going to be re-used immediately (unlike most gates, this one had very little people-clutter around it for that reason).

The story continues- the wonderful GA who put us on standby on 6811? Two people didn't show up so we did get onto the plane. Both of us. Unfortunately, only one of us got to stay on the plane; they thought there were two seats, but there was only one. Two people had 7A (not one of ours, but since we were standby, one of us had to go... I don't have a big issue with that, things happen, and I'm just happy my daughter got to Madison with no further drama). I'm still here are ORD, waiting for UA5788 on which I have a confirmed seat assignment.

Fastair, one thing UA could be more pro-active on is to perhaps have info on the bus at the relevant counters (guess that would be everywhere in F? :D). Another thing would be a rolling standby. Why is standby good for just the one flight, then if it doesn't accomodate you, you have to go sprinting to the next one? There's no true first-in first-out scenario here, which seems a bit strange.

It's worse than just an inconvenience to customers, it's also costing UA $$$ on the bottom line. I got to travel from gate-to-gate with the same displaced people. How much time was spent by various United employees dealing with the 9 passengers that could have been accomodated on UA6216? Remember, my brother was on the flight, and he counted 9 absolutely positively empty seats and thinks there may have been two more. In any event, 9 empty seats on a run (ORD-MSN) when every single flight in the day from UA and AA is sold out. That's just nuts. Trouble is, it requires someone who can see the big picture to understand what's going on and deal with it.

I think we can discount the idea it was intentionally flown below limit because the GA made three announcements looking for all the missing people. And I guess what really set the gate agent off was that I knew there were empty seats on the plane. He really didn't like that. Gee whiz, sorry that I caught you doing a less-than-stellar job for your employer. By the way, no cheese for me, I don't have an RCC membership. Actually I do have a one-time pass I could use, but not much spare time when you're running from gate to gate to gate (plus, at the time, there were two of us and I only have one pass).

At first they thought it would be three people removed from the frame, because that's how many of us were standing. There was only one "missing" seat though. The crew had no grasp whatsoever of how to handle the situation... they expected passengers to police themselves and make sure they were on the right flight. This when they already knew many weren't in the right seat even. It was a very odd situation that delayed that flight maybe 20 minutes (or at least it seemed like it), far more than the original standby flight would have been delayed had they taken the standbys the agent refused to accomodate.

Twitter didn't cross my mind. Good idea. Too late for it now though.

In the end, I made it to Madison on UA6811.

But status doesn't always win. It's inconsistent. If status "won" then I would have found my way aboard a plane sooner than I did. To at least some extent, it's all about getting to that gate before the rest of the world figures it out.

The most-ridiculous advice UA gives is to tell everyone "Go to the customer service counter at F2 and they'll re-book you." YIKES!!! You should have seen the lines. People were going to be waiting there for hours, and meanwhile, who knows how many standby opportunities passed them by? They should have been told to either go to the next available gate for a flight to their destination (and try standby) or call UA reservations to see if they've already been re-booked.

Although it would also be nice if UA reservations could place someone on a standby list. That seems a bit strange... so you've got a UGS and he's got to wait in whatever long line to be put on standby? Is that really how it works?

Ultimately, there should be a flag for every single flight to a destination that's got problems... a flag that says there'd better be a darned good reason why that plane leaves the gate with any empty seats when later flights are all sold out. A flag that says it's OK for that plane to be 20 minutes late if need be (I'm not talking about holding it for hours, and I realize that ripples occur down the line from flights delayed for my reasons as well).

If I was UA Management I'd say screw this send 5831 back and load it up until it was full. When there is a standby list a mile long you never leave people behind unless it is weight restricted or something like that.

fastair and aluminumdriver, thanks for weighing in on this ridiculous situation. And my sympathies to the OP.

I'm curious about the bonuses. Not to excuse the lousy conduct the OP encountered, but the bonuses seem to provide incentives for such unprofessional, miss-the-forest-for-the-trees ways of operating. How are the bonuses structured? Who actually gets them? Any ways of changing them so they don't function in such counterproductive ways?

This would be a good use of Twitter like when they were kicking people off the plane. With 100,000 people reading the posts in real time United PR may have made a few phone calls, if not at least the times and the rest are logged for them.

I am not part of the bonus structure, so I don't know exactly how they are set up. I hear station managers and upper management get bonuses for on-time departures, ie closing doors on-time. Employees (not pilots) get bonuses for on-time arrival and Intent to Purchase numbers.

Striving to close doors on time is a good thing, but the problem is some close them earlier and earlie, and closing doors on passengers with open seats leaving just to get an on-time makes no sense from a business standpoint, but that's just me.

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It appears 7260 from chs was waiting on the ground for that gate. Still no excuse, but a reason anyway. Standby lists aren't auto transferred...many don't show up and during the closeout of a flight, long lists of people not there is terribly time consuming and inefficient. Most of us will delete the "no answers" then make an announcement about transferring the list. First on, first out runs contrary to ua's "status wins" methodology. Imagine the gs who just got added who was trumped by a "ma kettle", and how much customer relations would pay...I mean if they give $250 for inability to pre-assign an exit row online, this would have to be worth at least a grand.

Another system failure not previously mentioned
 

For some reason I had no emails or SMS messages saying there were issues with my connections. In the past, I've always(?) received messages telling me I'd been re-booked or whatever. Does United not have any "advisory" messages they can send, as in, "Due to weather-related issues at ORD, your scheduled flights may not be available. Please go to the gate for a flight to your destination and request that you be placed on standby. United will do all that it can to get you to your destination as quickly as possible."

But nothing of the kind came through. No message of any kind whatsoever, except one saying that my original flight was leaving on-time. Nothing saying that I wouldn't make it because it left before I arrived.

I'm still trying to figure out what I must have done wrong in this one (besides not trusting the original agent who told us, when we got off the plane, to go to our original flight's gate because it would still be there). At least one thing I did right was keep my lower-ranked daughter on the flight that would only take one of us. I suspect I had an easier time getting on 6811 as a 1K than she would have as a 3P. Suspect, but don't know for sure.

Wouldn't you loose your takeoff spot, and when ORD is under ATC delays due to supressed landing/takeoffs I would think your desginated spot would be valuable as it could force you to wait hours for the next. Im not totally familar with how that plays out but I assumed you had a set time for takeoff.

This has gotten way out of hand and it needs to stop. I have suggested this previously and I'm going to suggest it again. Everyone who gets left behind by UA in pursuit of this silly marketing gambit needs to file a formal complaint here:

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/CP_AirlineService.htm

Never mind 1K voice. Hit them where it hurts. Somebody needs their attention gotten.

For ticket agent/gate agents positons you probaby have 1,000 poeple apply for every position avaliable, to bad that can't screen out these type of people and hire individuals who have better people skills.

I think this was where a different tactic might have produced a different result

You have to take a VERY deep breath, find a way to smile and say something like "I'm a 1K and I can tell things are really crazy here but I've already missed my ticketed connection due to my inbound diverting to refuel, and I would really appreciate it if you could add me and my daughter to the standby list for this flight"