jimmc66

I'm betting CO gets the flight to/from GUM. This is essentially a Japanese "domestic" flight carrying tourists to/from Guam. Makes for a great connection to CNS as well.

jimmc66

That's exactly right.

With a 22:30 arrival, easy to get to Shinjuku/Shibuya/Maranouchi area hotels, even on the trains with the midnight cutoff.

I love the idea and hate the Narita Express!

LinBros

For those who want to pore over the DOT procedural process including the various carrier proposals, here's the link to the info via www.regulations.gov:

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Re...-OST-2010-0018

There's also an option to set an email alert which will give you daily notification of any new filings for this particular docket.

ncorman

The thought is that the flights awarded are those which will benefit the American people. Those GUM and HNL will be removed. DL is not in an alliance, so they could get one or two routes. That leaves the others as unknown. If I were to guess, I would say DL gets 2 (LAX, DTW), OW gets 1 (JFK) and *A gets 1 (SFO).

LinBros

DOT likes new entrants so more likely that HA gets one of the two HNL-NND flights they requested with the other three split between AA, CO, DL and UA.

DL's argument that it should get all four slot pairs is ridiculous. They already operate as many flights to/from Japan as AA, CO and UA combined not to mention holding vitually unlimited authority to operate as amany additional U.S.-Japan and Japan-Asia flights via NRT as they might wish. The fact that they don't have a Japanese partner is their own fault having bungled their original deal with ANA and failed to court JL before the Open Skies issue came up.

Likely outcome is that CO gets EWR, DL gets LAX, HA gets HNL and UA gets SFO with AA shut out having just received anti-trust immunity for transatlantic with BA and highly expected to receive similar approval for transpacific with JL. That would maximize "public benefit" assuming no political deals are cut!

cesco.g

Somwhat OT: Whatever happened with US' route authority awared pre-recession. Are they expected (ever) to fly to Japan/other Aisan destinations?

kevincrumbs

If I recall correctly, I think they announced earlier this year or late last year that they were giving up their plans to fly PHL - PEK & PHX - NRT. As long as they're in *A, I can't see them flying to Asia with their own metal anytime soon.

Some details found here.

mh3265a

If i read this quote right, it's awfully insensitive. Both GUM and HNL routes would benefit the U.S. and the travel markets in the Pacific. These tourists markets are hurting the most for Japanese tourists. In fact, on Guam nearly 80% of all tourists are from Japan and access to Haneda would be a boon for the local economy especially with evitable delays in the military build-up.

fastair

Good article here (on page 2) as to why the schedules are where they are. http://www.thestreet.com/story/10684...yo-haneda.html

Seems Japan doesn't want the Haneda service to cannibalize NRT's dominance in Intl connecting passengers so they make the timing such that it is more of a destination than a connection point.

jamar

Out of curiosity, would interlining/codesharing to a third country depend on that third country's approval (and would ATI also apply to it)? I think this would be good for two "city" airports currently not served directly by UA.
Example- offer SHA-HND-SFO as well as PVG-SFO. The first is more convenient and with an appropriately timed connection would get enough to be profitable. Or with the current flights, the FM arrival allows for a day-trip into Tokyo before the departure to SFO, which would appeal to a different set of people.

NickP 1K

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/...gebusinessnews

I'm also puzzled how DL got two slots??

However I don't see DOT reversing it's decision to HA.

Makes you think if the US should have offered ANA and JAL more slots in return for more slots to US carriers. (barring available HND slot times)

DL (ex NWA) with NO connecting feed out of HND to a partner sounds a little odd considering UA from SFO would have had extensive feed to ANA. DOT stated DL got LAX due to the aircraft size; a 747-400 ; I have a feeling if DL starts this service they will down gauge to a 777 or A330.

FireEmblemPride

I can almost guarantee DTW-HND won't work out unless they eventually axed the NRT route. Big mistake for DOT.

I'm not loyal enough to UA that I want UA to gain the route unconditionally, but SFO is far more important for Japan and the rest of Asia than DTW is. JAL is doing the route, but they're cutting NRT off at the same time, so it's zero-sum.

joejones

I think it's pretty simple if you look at how the HND to US mainland flights will ultimately break down. (I'm not including Hawaii here since it's practically a separate market)

DL x 2 = 2 Skyteam (LAX + DTW)
NH x 2 = 2 Star (presumably SFO/LAX + JFK/EWR/IAD/ORD)
AA x 1 + JL x 1 = 2 oneworld (SFO + JFK)

DOT realizes that the alliance carriers are going to codeshare these routes to death anyway, so they are just trying to equalize the alliances. And I don't think anyone cares much about connecting traffic to/from these flights since it will be so limited during HND's international operating hours. This is all about O&D for the time being. With 30 million people in the Tokyo metro area that's more than enough...

FireEmblemPride

Eventually they'll need more slots dedicated to mainland U.S. flights. Having

What's going on with AC and HND? Are Canada and Japan negotiating OS as well? If UA and CO are shut out long term, AC can be their ace in the hole.

joejones

HND-Canada slots are already negotiated. There's a thread about that here.

See also this article: