Let the lawsuits begin.
Feb 28, 2003, 6:36 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The banks of the river, Styx
Posts: 1,692
Let the lawsuits begin.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">United workers sue stock ownership plan over losses
February 28, 2003 8:03:00 PM ET
SEATTLE, Feb 28 (Reuters) - A group of United Airlines employees filed suit against managers of the airline's employee stock ownership plan (ESOP) on Friday, claiming the plan's trustees failed to protect workers' interests and cost them billions of dollars in lost investments.
The proposed class-action lawsuit, filed in a U.S. district court in Chicago, says the committee that ran United's stock ownership plan was not objective when it chose to hold stock in United parent UAL Corp. (UAL) as its plunged in value.
Hagens Berman, a Seattle-based legal firm representing the United workers, released a written statement on Friday detailing the suit. United, which is 55 percent-owned by its employees, did not immediately return calls for comment.
Shares of UAL, which filed the largest bankruptcy in aviation history in December, closed at $1.08 on Friday, down sharply from around $32 just prior to Sept. 11, 2001. The stock had already lost significant ground in the months before Sept. 11 as the economy sickened, and they were worth more than $100 each in the late 1990s.
The lawsuit claims that "the plan trustees fell short of their duty when they failed to move ESOP holdings to less risky, more appropriate investments, all while failing to disclose that the stock was an imprudent investment," the statement said.
State Street Bank, the plan's independent trustee, began to sell UAL stock last fall when it determined the plan had too much capital invested in UAL shares.
United's ESOP now holds about 20 million UAL shares.
State Street has been fighting in court since December to sell more shares to protect shareholder value, since they are generally rendered worthless in a bankruptcy.
But a U.S. bankruptcy court judge ruled last week that it cannot sell more shares, because the sales would jeopardize an important tax benefit to United. REUTERS
© 2003 Reuters</font>
February 28, 2003 8:03:00 PM ET
SEATTLE, Feb 28 (Reuters) - A group of United Airlines employees filed suit against managers of the airline's employee stock ownership plan (ESOP) on Friday, claiming the plan's trustees failed to protect workers' interests and cost them billions of dollars in lost investments.
The proposed class-action lawsuit, filed in a U.S. district court in Chicago, says the committee that ran United's stock ownership plan was not objective when it chose to hold stock in United parent UAL Corp. (UAL) as its plunged in value.
Hagens Berman, a Seattle-based legal firm representing the United workers, released a written statement on Friday detailing the suit. United, which is 55 percent-owned by its employees, did not immediately return calls for comment.
Shares of UAL, which filed the largest bankruptcy in aviation history in December, closed at $1.08 on Friday, down sharply from around $32 just prior to Sept. 11, 2001. The stock had already lost significant ground in the months before Sept. 11 as the economy sickened, and they were worth more than $100 each in the late 1990s.
The lawsuit claims that "the plan trustees fell short of their duty when they failed to move ESOP holdings to less risky, more appropriate investments, all while failing to disclose that the stock was an imprudent investment," the statement said.
State Street Bank, the plan's independent trustee, began to sell UAL stock last fall when it determined the plan had too much capital invested in UAL shares.
United's ESOP now holds about 20 million UAL shares.
State Street has been fighting in court since December to sell more shares to protect shareholder value, since they are generally rendered worthless in a bankruptcy.
But a U.S. bankruptcy court judge ruled last week that it cannot sell more shares, because the sales would jeopardize an important tax benefit to United. REUTERS
© 2003 Reuters</font>
Feb 28, 2003, 7:17 pm
#2
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: IND- Views expressed by me in this forum are solely my opinion and do not reflect the opinion or policies of UA.
Posts: 697
I'm a UA employee and I lost my ... in 2001.
Amazingly, I didn't have a single red cent invested in UAL, any airline or any subsidiarys.
The market was tanking already (thanks W.)and 9-11 scared most of the die-hards off after the carnage in 2001.
Some people never learn the rule: today for you, tomorrow for me- or, what comes around goes around.
You (we) already lost! Most of us did. Why drag down the rest of us with lawsuits? Why even try? How can anyone feel better for doing that?
"Well, UAL laid me off in 2002 but I helped make sure there wasn't a UAL for anybody else to work for."
Hey, sister/brother... that makes you WORSE than a scab.
Amazingly, I didn't have a single red cent invested in UAL, any airline or any subsidiarys.
The market was tanking already (thanks W.)and 9-11 scared most of the die-hards off after the carnage in 2001.
Some people never learn the rule: today for you, tomorrow for me- or, what comes around goes around.
You (we) already lost! Most of us did. Why drag down the rest of us with lawsuits? Why even try? How can anyone feel better for doing that?
"Well, UAL laid me off in 2002 but I helped make sure there wasn't a UAL for anybody else to work for."
Hey, sister/brother... that makes you WORSE than a scab.
Feb 28, 2003, 7:29 pm
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA - DCA
Programs: BA Gold, American Airlines, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond
Posts: 5,075
The real failure here is to realize that an investment in a company's stock is just that - an investment in the company.
UA is in the dumpster right now and so is its stock.
The implication that the "financial advisiors" did not warn that the company may financially "suck wind" is a perfect example of the lack of understanding that exsists in today's marketplace.
UA stock could be woth $100 a share or less than a $1. It is YOUR decision to decide if you want to own it.
Put your eggs where you wish but don't ***** and whine IF your ONE nest falls to the gound with a cracking thud...
[This message has been edited by geo1005 (edited 02-28-2003).]
UA is in the dumpster right now and so is its stock.
The implication that the "financial advisiors" did not warn that the company may financially "suck wind" is a perfect example of the lack of understanding that exsists in today's marketplace.
UA stock could be woth $100 a share or less than a $1. It is YOUR decision to decide if you want to own it.
Put your eggs where you wish but don't ***** and whine IF your ONE nest falls to the gound with a cracking thud...
[This message has been edited by geo1005 (edited 02-28-2003).]
Feb 28, 2003, 8:14 pm
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Hey Everybody!
geo is back!
Welcome back, geo!
geo is back!
Welcome back, geo!
Feb 28, 2003, 8:25 pm
#5
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Memphis, TN USA UA 1K, NW Platinum, AA Gold, Starwood Platinum, HHonors Gold
Posts: 701
JANA:
In your post you thank someone named 'W' for the stock woes. Who is this person? Is this referring to Goodwin?
You may want to edit and clarify it. The only 'W' I hear referred to is our President. We all know that this country was in a recession months before the presidential election.
The only way people make money in airline stocks over the long-term is to short them. I truly feel sorry for the employees of UA if they had airline stock as the foundation for their retirement.
In your post you thank someone named 'W' for the stock woes. Who is this person? Is this referring to Goodwin?
You may want to edit and clarify it. The only 'W' I hear referred to is our President. We all know that this country was in a recession months before the presidential election.
The only way people make money in airline stocks over the long-term is to short them. I truly feel sorry for the employees of UA if they had airline stock as the foundation for their retirement.
Feb 28, 2003, 8:55 pm
#6
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 846
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyingRev:
I truly feel sorry for the employees of UA if they had airline stock as the foundation for their retirement.[/B]</font>
I truly feel sorry for the employees of UA if they had airline stock as the foundation for their retirement.[/B]</font>
Feb 28, 2003, 8:57 pm
#7
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: IND- Views expressed by me in this forum are solely my opinion and do not reflect the opinion or policies of UA.
Posts: 697
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyingRev:
JANA:
In your post you thank someone named 'W' for the stock woes. Who is this person? Is this referring to Goodwin?
You may want to edit and clarify it. The only 'W' I hear referred to is our President. We all know that this country was in a recession months before the presidential election.
The only way people make money in airline stocks over the long-term is to short them. I truly feel sorry for the employees of UA if they had airline stock as the foundation for their retirement.</font>
JANA:
In your post you thank someone named 'W' for the stock woes. Who is this person? Is this referring to Goodwin?
You may want to edit and clarify it. The only 'W' I hear referred to is our President. We all know that this country was in a recession months before the presidential election.
The only way people make money in airline stocks over the long-term is to short them. I truly feel sorry for the employees of UA if they had airline stock as the foundation for their retirement.</font>
That said... the "W' I was referring to is indeed our President. Our economy was still strong prior to the presidential election. My husband was laid off on May 1, 2001. Our stocks went into "bail factor" in Dec. 2000- after "W" was elected. (Hubby was a stockbroker and predicted the economy would falter, in his words, BIG TIME.)
IT DID.
Yes,prior to 9-11, UAL was hurting. We all were. Just like Daddy... re-invent the war Daddy fought and hope for public support. It ain't happening... There is very little support on the homefront or with our allies.
If we must go in, do it and FAST. Knowing W. (GEORGE W BUSH), we'll spend our great grandchildren's money wiping out Iraq and then spend their grandchildren's money wiping out N. Korea.
Goodwin who?
Feb 28, 2003, 11:03 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1005:
The real failure here is to realize that an investment in a company's stock is just that - an investment in the company.
UA is in the dumpster right now and so is its stock.
The implication that the "financial advisiors" did not warn that the company may financially "suck wind" is a perfect example of the lack of understanding that exsists in today's marketplace.
UA stock could be woth $100 a share or less than a $1. It is YOUR decision to decide if you want to own it.
Put your eggs where you wish but don't ***** and whine IF your ONE nest falls to the gound with a cracking thud...
[This message has been edited by geo1005 (edited 02-28-2003).]</font>
The real failure here is to realize that an investment in a company's stock is just that - an investment in the company.
UA is in the dumpster right now and so is its stock.
The implication that the "financial advisiors" did not warn that the company may financially "suck wind" is a perfect example of the lack of understanding that exsists in today's marketplace.
UA stock could be woth $100 a share or less than a $1. It is YOUR decision to decide if you want to own it.
Put your eggs where you wish but don't ***** and whine IF your ONE nest falls to the gound with a cracking thud...
[This message has been edited by geo1005 (edited 02-28-2003).]</font>
Mar 1, 2003, 1:04 am
#9
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ TPP, UA 1K MM
Posts: 518
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyingRev:
You may want to edit and clarify it. The only 'W' I hear referred to is our President. We all know that this country was in a recession months before the presidential election.</font>
You may want to edit and clarify it. The only 'W' I hear referred to is our President. We all know that this country was in a recession months before the presidential election.</font>
Second, this country was doing pretty well until "W" and his financial hacks took over. And now he's going to have his little pet war to distract people from just how badly the economy sucks.
And to keep this post topical, W's little war could very well be the nail in the coffin of our two largest airlines. Now that's presidential leadership!
[This message has been edited by crazycrab955 (edited 03-01-2003).]
Mar 1, 2003, 1:24 am
#10
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: mystic island, nj, USA
Posts: 2,377
Good Grief Jana,
The President has very little to do with the performance of the economy whether it's Clinton, Gore, bore, snore, tush or Bush. Economys run in cycles and the best thing government can do is stay out of the way and let the market work. Remember that the industry with the fastest rising cost (Health Care) has the most government meddling with Medicare, medicaid, DRG's etc.
I'll never understand this slavish dedication to the Democratic party by organized Labor. Especially the airline unions. Linda Daschle is a paid whore, er lobbyist for several of the majors. That's why Tom and Linda have never made their tax returns public and why he won't run for president. With folks like that I would argue that Labor has had about all of the help it can stand from the Democrats. After all Democrats have held control of Congress for most of the last 50 years and Union membership has declined from nearly 35% of workers to 15% now. Democrats are doing a bang up job aren't they?? But not to worry you'll figure out a way to blame Bush. Instead why not check out www.lp.org and read the platform on organized labor and tell me why you haven't thrown a ton of money at this political party and helped it grow??
The President has very little to do with the performance of the economy whether it's Clinton, Gore, bore, snore, tush or Bush. Economys run in cycles and the best thing government can do is stay out of the way and let the market work. Remember that the industry with the fastest rising cost (Health Care) has the most government meddling with Medicare, medicaid, DRG's etc.
I'll never understand this slavish dedication to the Democratic party by organized Labor. Especially the airline unions. Linda Daschle is a paid whore, er lobbyist for several of the majors. That's why Tom and Linda have never made their tax returns public and why he won't run for president. With folks like that I would argue that Labor has had about all of the help it can stand from the Democrats. After all Democrats have held control of Congress for most of the last 50 years and Union membership has declined from nearly 35% of workers to 15% now. Democrats are doing a bang up job aren't they?? But not to worry you'll figure out a way to blame Bush. Instead why not check out www.lp.org and read the platform on organized labor and tell me why you haven't thrown a ton of money at this political party and helped it grow??
Mar 1, 2003, 2:07 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The banks of the river, Styx
Posts: 1,692
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Jana:
I'm a UA employee and I lost my ... in 2001.
Amazingly, I didn't have a single red cent invested in UAL, any airline or any subsidiarys.
The market was tanking already (thanks W.)and 9-11 scared most of the die-hards off after the carnage in 2001.
Some people never learn the rule: today for you, tomorrow for me- or, what comes around goes around.
You (we) already lost! Most of us did. Why drag down the rest of us with lawsuits? Why even try? How can anyone feel better for doing that?
"Well, UAL laid me off in 2002 but I helped make sure there wasn't a UAL for anybody else to work for."
Hey, sister/brother... that makes you WORSE than a scab.</font>
I'm a UA employee and I lost my ... in 2001.
Amazingly, I didn't have a single red cent invested in UAL, any airline or any subsidiarys.
The market was tanking already (thanks W.)and 9-11 scared most of the die-hards off after the carnage in 2001.
Some people never learn the rule: today for you, tomorrow for me- or, what comes around goes around.
You (we) already lost! Most of us did. Why drag down the rest of us with lawsuits? Why even try? How can anyone feel better for doing that?
"Well, UAL laid me off in 2002 but I helped make sure there wasn't a UAL for anybody else to work for."
Hey, sister/brother... that makes you WORSE than a scab.</font>
Please don't shoot the messenger.
Mar 1, 2003, 5:42 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,468
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Jana:
Why drag down the rest of us with lawsuits? Why even try? How can anyone feel better for doing that?
</font>
Why drag down the rest of us with lawsuits? Why even try? How can anyone feel better for doing that?
</font>
Mar 1, 2003, 7:18 am
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA - DCA
Programs: BA Gold, American Airlines, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond
Posts: 5,075
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GGpillow:
In general, I agree with your comments, however, what you have failed to take into account, is that some 20,000 of UAL's employees, were forced into the ESOP against their will, with absolutely no say in the matter.</font>
In general, I agree with your comments, however, what you have failed to take into account, is that some 20,000 of UAL's employees, were forced into the ESOP against their will, with absolutely no say in the matter.</font>
Mar 1, 2003, 8:29 am
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Reality, Freedom • Fly Tarom •
Programs: AF FB Platinum For Life (F+ Rouge Vintage®) / Hertz President's Circle / SNCF Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 10,077
Hey, geo1005!
Mar 1, 2003, 1:44 pm
#15
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 852
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by crazycrab955:
...First of all, he's not MY president. I, along with a majority of the voters in the U.S., voted for someone else.
Second, this country was doing pretty well until "W" and his financial hacks took over...</font>
...First of all, he's not MY president. I, along with a majority of the voters in the U.S., voted for someone else.
Second, this country was doing pretty well until "W" and his financial hacks took over...</font>