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-   -   American Airlines Sucks...Go UA Go! (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileage-plus-pre-merger/104677-american-airlines-sucks-go-ua-go.html)

kokonutz Mar 4, 2003 6:08 pm

American Airlines Sucks...Go UA Go!
 
So I got protected onto my first AA flight this year last week when I had a UAX segment cancel.

I ended up on a J41 to STL on AAX which was great. I love the J41 and miss 'em out of IAD since my routes are all now CRJs.

Then I got to STL. Lets face it folks, this airport is a freaking slum. What a place for a hub. God forbid one ever have to spend any time there. Fortunately for me, I was on a fairly tight connection.

Onto an MD-80. Folks, this plane is also a slum. A freaking slum. Probably older then I am. MRTC? Puh-leeze. My Tumi fits under every single seat on every real UA jet. Not on this plane! The flight to DCA was a couple hours. Where in the heck was the much-ballyhooed coach empower? I missed channel 9. Heck, folks, I missed ANY AUDIO AT ALL. There was none!

So my last two AA experiences were on a Carribean A300 and an MD-80 P.O.S.

I pray hard as can be for UA's survival since AA is my only other choice in the event of the inconceivable.


cawhite Mar 4, 2003 6:40 pm

Koko, don't be shy, tell us how you really feel! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I feel exactly the same about STL...not to mention I've not only been gate-raped there twice, but both times was pulled from a sitting position for it before they even started boarding the plane!

I'm not a big fan of AA either...mostly because of the fact that most everywhere I fly are Eagle flights vs UAL widebodies. They also don't seem too keen on my "United Will Stand" button!!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Scion Mar 4, 2003 6:43 pm

Why is it that in order to make themselves feel better about how grim things have gotten at United some on the United board must resort to disparaging AA?

I guess all the "feel good" threads about how service seems to be improving since the Chapter 11 filing just stopped ringing true.

You don't see threads like this over on the AA board. Truth be told it is not for lack of content - UA's ex-Shuttle Aircraft, 767-200's, United Express Concourse at Chicago, the IAD Shack, etc. Indeed, if UA were as great an airline as some of you claim, it wouldn't be in the dire financial position it is now.

richard Mar 4, 2003 6:46 pm

The STL hub is awful. The planes and crew going through there are not up to snuff although the F section is large (these are ex-TWA planes and crew generally).

In contrast, UA flies many similar routes in A319s or A320s with very small F sections.

LastClass Mar 4, 2003 6:52 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Scion:
You don't see threads like this over on the AA board.</font>
So you're saying "your" little playground is as miserable as "ours" is for the most part. Oh yeah, THAT makes me want to switch right over to AA right now, lemme tell ya.

martin33 Mar 4, 2003 6:55 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kokonutz:

Onto an MD-80. Folks, this plane is also a slum. A freaking slum. Probably older then I am. MRTC? Puh-leeze. My Tumi fits under every single seat on every real UA jet. Not on this plane! The flight to DCA was a couple hours. Where in the heck was the much-ballyhooed coach empower?
</font>
Congratulations! NOW you know the secret of why TWA went out of business. Do get a clue about the system before going on such a rant.

p.s. For the record, AA is spending $40m at STL to try and get things less slummy.

p.p.s. If you'd care to pay any attention at all, the rest of the AA fleet (the 80% that's not ex-TW) has power ports but they are not Empower. They are plain old car-style sockets.

martin33 Mar 4, 2003 6:58 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LastClass:
So you're saying "your" little playground is as miserable as "ours" is for the most part. Oh yeah, THAT makes me want to switch right over to AA right now, lemme tell ya.</font>
No, it says nothing about the AA board being miserable. You're welcome to verify the silliness of that idea for yourself. It's saying that nobody in their right mind on the AA board feels compelled to initiate threads trashing DL or UA just to make AA seem worth flying.


snorkmaster Mar 4, 2003 7:41 pm

Airport Management 101: You don't spend a lot of money on renovations when your primary carrier (TW for decades, and now AA) is in lousy shape, because you may get stuck with the bill.

I agree STL is a dump, but take history into account before you make statements like the one below.

And remember your Research Methods 101 as well before you make a blanket statement about how much "American Airlines sucks."


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kokonutz:
Then I got to STL. Lets face it folks, this airport is a freaking slum. What a place for a hub. God forbid one ever have to spend any time there. Fortunately for me, I was on a fairly tight connection.</font>

[This message has been edited by snorkmaster (edited 03-04-2003).]

cawhite Mar 4, 2003 8:30 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Scion:
Why is it that in order to make themselves feel better about how grim things have gotten at United some on the United board must resort to disparaging AA?

I guess all the "feel good" threads about how service seems to be improving since the Chapter 11 filing just stopped ringing true.

You don't see threads like this over on the AA board. Truth be told it is not for lack of content - UA's ex-Shuttle Aircraft, 767-200's, United Express Concourse at Chicago, the IAD Shack, etc. Indeed, if UA were as great an airline as some of you claim, it wouldn't be in the dire financial position it is now.
</font>
we all have our reasons for having our favorite airlines, and we all have our reasons for disliking others.

Frankly my feelings toward AA are based on my experiences with them, not because it makes me feel better about UAL. Shall we start with the FA-from-he** who required us all to give him our Starbucks cups before we left the gate?

I can't comment on the ex-shuttle aircraft as I've never been on one, and I rarely have to fly through IAD. But, while you're raising the subject of ORD's UAX concourse, have you been through Terminal 3's G Concourse recently? I see it every month, and it absolutely is not better than the UAX concourse at ORD.

My experiences with UAL have largely been very positive. I should probably consider myself fortunate that my "worst" FA was "average." Yes, I've run into less-than- wonderful GA's...every airline has them (same for FA's), but the service I've received from UAL continues exceed any of the other US airlines I"ve flown on (AA, US, CO, DL, NW, SW, TZ...before anyone bothers to imply I've not flown on any other airline)

JMO...

[This message has been edited by cawhite60156 (edited 03-04-2003).]

kokonutz Mar 4, 2003 8:34 pm

Mom, Dad, Scion and Martin:

The fact remains: I tremble at the demise of UA. For me, the routes I fly, AA is TWA. They bought it as is. They are running it as was. And, FWIW, I'll have to ask Cluebyfour where he left my clue, seeing as I am apparently clueless.

Clued in or not, I'll take a circa 1999 Airbus to galavant around the midwest on midcons to a circa 1979 MD-80 any old day, thank you very much.

I choose UA over AA for many reasons. One of these is that they are, for me, the least of all evils. That means I am NOT a UA pollyanna. So be it.

My point in this thread was not so much to bash your beloved. Only to fear the passing of mine. And lament that as so many former UA patrons jump ship now voluntarily but perhaps one day by necessity that they realize that the ships they are jumping to were designed by their grandfathers and built in Missouri 20 and 30 years ago.

The polite response is pity, not scorn. But I suppose it IS easier to be reactionary then thoughtful. Alas.

[This message has been edited by kokonutz (edited 03-04-2003).]

kokonutz Mar 4, 2003 8:38 pm

None of which, BTW, explain or excuse my A300 AA experiences...

CoMooter Mar 4, 2003 9:10 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kokonutz:
...My point in this thread was not so much to bash your beloved. Only to fear the passing of mine. And lament that as so many former UA patrons jump ship now voluntarily but perhaps one day by necessity that they realize that the ships they are jumping to were designed by their grandfathers and built in Missouri 20 and 30 years ago.</font>
Koko:

Most AA flyers know 3 things about booking flights:

1) Avoid STL
2) Avoid STL
3) Avoid STL

Lambert is a dump (since NW's DTW move, IMHO the leading contender for the worst major city hub airport in the U.S.) thanks to Uncle Carl and a recent history of almost complete lack of regard by the city fathers of STL for the facility.

Ex-TW aircraft are not in the same league as AA's and should be avoided at all costs. TW MD-83's are on par in comfort (or lack thereof) with every other U.S. airline's MD-80's - but not with AA's which have been completely refurbished.

I still think that STL will pay off for AA (unless they suddenly get a lot more gates at ORD http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif) in the long run...but unless you are going to STL - or the Ozarks - avoid the airport (on any carrier) at all costs.

kokonutz Mar 4, 2003 9:15 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Ex-TW aircraft are not in the same league as AA's and should be avoided at all costs. </font>
See "A-300" above...

Or do you blame Eastern for that?

ClueByFour Mar 4, 2003 9:28 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kokonutz:
And, FWIW, I'll have to ask Cluebyfour where he left my clue, seeing as I am apparently clueless.

Clued in or not, I'll take a circa 1999 Airbus to galavant around the midwest on midcons to a circa 1979 MD-80 any old day, thank you very much.
</font>
Glad you paged.

I don't think you are clueless, my friend, I think you had a few bad experiences. Nothing wrong with that--a half dozen really crappy experiences have kept me off UA metal (forever for all intents and purposes). However:


[intentional argumentative material follows]

You can be the last one on the plane and get a decent seat on the ancient MD-80. Enjoy 23B on that A319 (E---). You get power scattered thru the entire coach cabin on most/all AA aircraft. The seat power on AA works darned near all the time (I've been told that the working empower port on UA is a bird as rare as the proverbial albatross). You rarely experience the quality Overhead- equipment similar to UA's Boeing equipment.

Regarding the age of the equipment, I'd urge you to consider if that shiny new fleet is doing UA a whit of good while in Chapter 11. Maybe AA can buy some....

I'm finished now. With the smarty-pants stuff done to illustrate my point http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif.

I think what my distinguished colleague from Virginia is trying to hint at is ClueByFour's Third Law of Travel:

All Airlines Suck. Some just suck less than others.

Clearly then, even the AA zealot can appreciate that for Mr Nutz, UA sucks less http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif. And that's all the Clue one needs.


------------------
Saving the world, one clue at a time.

[This message has been edited by ClueByFour (edited 03-04-2003).]

martin33 Mar 4, 2003 9:58 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kokonutz:
The polite response is pity, not scorn. But I suppose it IS easier to be reactionary then thoughtful. Alas.
</font>
It would have taken the thoughts of the ages to discern anything other than ranting AA-bashing in that original post.

BUT, if it's pity you're after why on Earth didn't you say so? Here, take two, they're small...


ozstamps Mar 4, 2003 9:58 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by martin33:

nobody in their right mind on the AA board feels compelled to initiate threads trashing DL or UA just to make AA seem worth flying.
</font>
Wait until AA is in Chapter 11 (pretty soon is my guess) and also makes all your 8 x VIPOWs useless, and THEN watch the alleged happy tone of the posts over there change pal. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif



------------------
~ Glen ~

Come and visit the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!

gregseattle Mar 5, 2003 1:32 am


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ClueByFour:
All Airlines Suck. Some just suck less than others.
</font>
You made my night. Well, that and koko's pejorative comment about my least favorite airport...

But I do have to say that AA sent me a nice gold card yesterday, even apologizing to me that I didn't make Platinum even though I haven't flown them for something like 7 years... I did have a little AA warm fuzzy tho.

Spiff Mar 5, 2003 7:08 am

Not gonna happen, my friend. AA has two delightful poster children, UA and US, to help them wring concessions out of their unions. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ozstamps:
Wait until AA is in Chapter 11 (pretty soon is my guess) and also makes all your 8 x VIPOWs useless, and THEN watch the alleged happy tone of the posts over there change pal. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

</font>

bdschobel Mar 5, 2003 7:17 am


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cawhite60156:
I feel exactly the same about STL...not to mention I've not only been gate-raped there twice, but both times was pulled from a sitting position for it before they even started boarding the plane!</font>
You must be very beautiful. Sunday night I was in Ft. Lauderdale Airport, waiting for my Delta Connection flight to Orlando. The TSA gate-rapers (two thug-like young men and an obese older woman) looked out at the assembled multitudes and -- lo and behold -- "selected" for search TWO young, thin, attractive women (girls, almost). I commented to the guy sitting next to me how grotesque that was, and he agreed. No men were slected to my knowledge (but I boarded before they were done, so I can't be sure).

Our tax dollars at waste.

Bruce

kokonutz Mar 5, 2003 8:13 am


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">It would have taken the thoughts of the ages to discern anything other than ranting AA-bashing in that original post.</font>
1) STL is an old, cramped, dark and dirty airport. The only thing this has to do with AA is that AA has chosen to maintain a hub there.

2) AA's fleet includes some very old, dirty decrepit mainline jets (including Fokkers, MDs and A300s) that:
a) lack underseat storage and/or
b) lack power supply and/or
c) lack audio entertainment

3) I do not wish to be forced to switch to AA so hope UA survives.

Thank you for the compliment! Who needs a clue when one has the thoughts of the ages!

And thank you also for your pity. Clearly many think AA is the lesser of two evils. I certainly hope that those who feel that way never have to contemplate the potential bleakness of being forced by corporate officer mismanagment to fly UA.

JFKflyer Mar 5, 2003 8:57 am

I have never had the great overall experience at AA that I get at UA, but then again I have never had a bad experience at AA. That is a lot more than I can say for CO, DL, and NW. How funny these slum airlines are in an alliance now. To me AA is a pretty good alternative to UA for many routes. The problem is going deeper into Asia. If the dreadful day ever comes for UA, I hope AA gets their NRT rights because I dread the thought of more crappy NWA narrowbodies and surly service, or DL or CO and their own slum.

And about teh old Super 80... I do not think it is much worse than Shuttle planes, and certainly a lot better than a RJ. I do think that LGA to DFW is way too far to be using these things, but I do not think it would be that bad for shorter flights from a hub as opposed to an ERJ or CRJ, or even some point to point non hub traffic. Also MRTC is great (not as nice as E+ if you prebook and keep your assignment) if you get bumped and end up in a middle seat in the back. Coach is just dreadful on DL.

Basically I see AA and UA as being about the same quality full service airline. To me DL and US are the next level down. SWA and JB are next down. Then CO, NW, Hooters, and the others. I have flown and continue to fly most of these so my experiences are based on more than just a random bad experience.

CoMooter Mar 5, 2003 9:15 am


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
Not gonna happen, my friend. AA has two delightful poster children, UA and US, to help them wring concessions out of their unions. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif</font>
AA also has the 'AAdvantage' of competent management in charge of this 'wringing' - something UA hasn't had since Mr. Ferris left the property...


cawhite Mar 5, 2003 11:17 am


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
You must be very beautiful. Sunday night I was in Ft. Lauderdale Airport, waiting for my Delta Connection flight to Orlando. The TSA gate-rapers (two thug-like young men and an obese older woman) looked out at the assembled multitudes and -- lo and behold -- "selected" for search TWO young, thin, attractive women (girls, almost). I commented to the guy sitting next to me how grotesque that was, and he agreed. No men were slected to my knowledge (but I boarded before they were done, so I can't be sure).

Our tax dollars at waste.

Bruce
</font>
Bwahahahahaha!!!! Bruce, you should've warned us with a note at the beginning of your post to not be consuming a beverage at time of reading! Now that I've had time to clean the water off my monitor....

I definitely would NOT use the word beautiful to describe myself, nor do I think anyone else would! Cori -- where are you...she can back me up on this!

Frankly I think I just fit that terrorist profile...5'6" woman with blue eyes & sorta blonde hair, usually in a business suit or else jeans/khakis & a sweater!



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