Same PNR Different Slots on the Waitlist
 

My SO and I are on flight from ORD-CUN early next week. I found out that we are listed separately on the wait list. #4 and #7. Including me there are 4 1K's on the flight.

I called the 1K desk to confirm that we were listed together and she said yes, when I asked what numbers she became rather quiet and then told me I would have to wait until I arrived at the airport. Currently, there is enough upgrade space for both of us to clear, but things could change and I don't want to miss the upgrade because of some sort of glitch. A second call to the 1K desk didn't do any good either.

And yes, I am 100% sure we are not listed together. :)

Any ideas why? Any ideas how to get it fixed?

Thanks!

If it's true you're #4 and #7 that defies conventional FT wisdom on how upgrades work before going to the DM list at the airport. But I'm confused about something... if there's upgrade space available now why can't you confirm now? Are you using e500's? If so, you're not actually waitlisted yet, you're just in pending status until the 100 hour window comes.

I don't think there's anything you can do to get it "fixed", other than change to an immediately confirmable upgrade instrument and snag the upgrades now if they are available. You'll just have to take whatever comes.

I should have been more clear. There is space for both of us to clear at this time based on current loads, but there is no NC space left. (I would guess they are trying to sell cash upgrades at the gate.) I used CR1's to upgrade the flight.

Aaah ok.. well then it's a mystery why you'd be 4 and 7. I think they're trying to sell C seats.. it is likely most if not all of the C space will be handed out to upgraders between now and flight time..possibly as late as 4 hours before the flight. Doubtful they will hold back seats for cash upgrades at the gate.

You're referring to NF space, correct? I didn't think UA runs 3-class to Mexico.

I wish they ran a 3 class to Mexico! Unfortunately, it is just a 320. However, they sell the "F" cabin as "C" on flights to Mexico.

Waitlist for upgrade right?

What did you use to upgrade with? ( CR1s -- missed the later posting)
Are you on the same PNR?
What is status of SO?

How did you find out placement?


-- there have been recent discussed if waitlist priority has changed and that status may be now the primary factor.

Yes, we are on the same PNR. SO has no status. I'd rather not say how I know, but I am 100% certain. FYI- #7 is last on the upgrade list for the flight.

I really think this is the case. What is interesting though was that somebody with a companion on their PNR would carry the status of the highest passenger on the PNR. The above scenario contradicts that and it appears further reinforces that status means everything.

As another data point, I sponsored a friend earlier this week for a flight. The flight has gone from F9 to F3 and it appears upgrades have cleared for others (F-cabin filling up and E+ seats have opened up). I recognize that I'm making a pretty big (and possibly dangerous) assumption that others have waiting for upgrades have cleared. NF is still 0 according to .bomb. My friend has no-status on UA. If the above is true, one could conclude that sponsor status means nothing on the waitlist and its all about passenger status, contrary to what others have posted here.

Rules did change but...
 

This contradicts everything I have been told about the "Old" and the "New" system (I am not referring to UDU when I say "New").

Note: there are multiple criteria that impact placement on the wait list. I am only referring to how the one criteria of MP Status supposedly works.

I was told by many different sources that with the Old system, the MP status of the upgrade sponsor determined placement on the upgrade wait list even at the airport. At some point it recently changed such that the sponsor's MP status no longer impacting the day of flight, or airport, wait list order and that the airport wait list order was determined by the flyer's MP status.

However, the referenced change should NOT impact the OP until the day of flight Not being adjacent on the advance wait list flies in the face of what I have been told by more than a dozen UA agents and my experience for more than the past 8 years.

I have been the victim of upgrade wait list computer problems and that is what this sounds like to me. But this one seems like agent error. It sounds like somehow someone manually input the SO's status and overwrote the OP's status.

I hope you both clear. Best of luck and happy holidays.

I've been told the same thing: Sponsor status does not carry over to sponsoree and the waitlists are now being cleared by status, not FIFO.

My recent experience supports this but I don't want to draw any conclusions from just a few data points.

You will clear before your significant other. Your significant other with no status will clear last.

I recently used my SWUs for my friend, a general member, first, then myself (1K). We are on separate PNRS. So far, 5 of my 6 segments have cleared and my friend only has 2 of his segments cleared.

Therefore status is everything now. It is no longer first in first off.

Another data point here that I would think is the opposite... I have a 2P friend cleared a SFO - NRT flight to NC. He had waitlisted for quite sometime, so if the FIFO system is in place, then it seems he cleared with just waiting. I'm not sure how SFO - NRT compares to the SFO - HKG (which is notoriously hard to clear), I'm just assuming the common knowledge that SFO is very elite heavy and I'd think it is safe to assume that there is always someone with a higher status (1P, 1K, GS) than him in the waitlist (if IM releases NC seats very slowly).

Plenty of assumptions here...

Data Point

SO and I were on waitlist for SFO to HNL on Sunday night. I am a 1K, he is a Premier Associate. I was listed second, he was listed 8th. The upgrades were requested a week in advanced, cleared at the gate.

Ouch, ouch, ouch. Doesn't bode well for 1Ps sponsored with SWUs by kindly 1Ks. Second-guessing my decision not to do a 22K BIS mileage run in late-November :(

For the gate, this sorting has always been true -- the key question is the sorting order before DM.

Exactly. Status has always been everything @ the gate. Need more data points about any chg in ranking prior to DM....

I've always understood the PA waitlist is displayed to agents in alphabetical order, but maybe that is really old information?

Interesting that the sponsoree gets on the PA waitlist, but is not adjacent to the sponsor. Maybe the sponsoree is really at the top of the PB waitlist?

It seems like more people are suggesting the PA waitlist clears, when NC/NF inventory becomes available, by status then fare class but what is the final tiebreaker? Date and time added to the PA waitlist? Is that what the OP is seeing when they identify themselves at position #4?

I don't think it is safe assumption to assume there are always elites on the waitlist. Only specific, relatively high fare classes qualify for upgrades. There could be plenty of elites that don't meet the upgrade requirements. I've met plenty of 1Ks that seem annoyed that many of the flights they book (lowest fare available) aren't eligible for SWUs. I think this will change once miles+copay are available for all fares. Of course, this will make it VERY hard for lower level elites to upgrade unless they can confirm in advance or travel on low-elite travel days. Booking 9 months in advance has no advantage if NC space doesn't open until a week before the flight and N-number of people had the opportunity to jump ahead of you.

Dear United (and @UnitedPR)

I don't understand why you just don't tell us _exactly_ how the upgrade waitlist system works. If your concern is your elites "gaming" the system, relax: that's a constant consideration unaffected by divulging the rules.

By opening the kimono on this process, you would be revealing nothing proprietary, but would allow MP members to rest more easily knowing how their upgrades are supposed to clear. Everyone would be calmer and satisfaction would rise.

If you're testing various upgrade schemes to see what the results are (some kind of A/B test), you can also tell us that. We're grownups (well, most of us at least), and we understand you might need to test some stuff out. I'd think you could simulate it based on historical data, but I'm just trying to cover the bases.

In summary: please just be clear with us how this works. It's better for everyone.

-G

I think UA's upgrade policies are more than clear. As much as I'd like to know the edge cases, I understand why UA won't really tell us. Upgrades aren't "supposed to clear". UA as a business doesn't want to upgrade somebody until they have exhausted every other opportunity to make higher revenue off the same seat. UA doesn't want to incentivize folks to purchase a lower-fare likely to get an upgrade over a confirmed seat in the higher cabin. Our status/fare paid/upgrade certs give us an opportunity for something that would otherwise go unused and most others don't have access.

The business reality is that UA has no reason to clear upgrade space in advance unless its for an operational reason (e.g.; make space in the current cabin to sell more seats). I would expect more and more flights to go battlefield or at minimum not expecting to clear until a day or two before the flight to minimize GA work and jeopardizing ontime departures.

denverhockeyguy:

Not sure if you misunderstood me or were being rhetorical, but just for clarity: I'm not suggesting upgrades are supposed to clear, I am suggesting that there is a process by which they are supposed to clear.

It is transparency in the process I am asking United to provide. Not a guarantee of further upgrades, nor any additional leverage. Merely a clearly articulated process explanation. It would calm everyone down, create a sense of fairness and predictability.

Not sure what you do for a living, but as anyone who deals with queue theory can tell you, you can make queue members readily stand in line for hours providing they know what to expect from the queue. If the process by which the queue moves forward (and an estimated wait time) is completely variable, all hell breaks loose.

This isn't my conjecture, incidentally - it's fact. United has a queue process which we can join, but we are unclear as to exactly how the queue works. This creates FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) - as the dozens of threads clearly illustrate. While United in unlikely to please everyone by illuminating the queue process (in fact, some people will probably get quite irritated), it will - in general - promote peace and stability among frequent travelers. In short, it's a cheap CS win for UA.

-G

PS - another thing that would help is if we had confidence in UA's tech team to write good, clear code.

There's the rub...

You're right. It's snowing and I'm have already broken into the holiday cocktail stash. Writing code is the scary part! Even if they have requirements and a documented process, it may or may not take into account all edge cases and short of talking to the developer(s), the people at UA that would respond to us probably don't even know. It could easily be that this is our "process" BUT there are these 10 exceptions, but the cost/benefit to fix (having to make adjustments in other parts of the system) are not worth sorting out. Short of reading the requirements doc and infrastructure comments you wouldn't know. Fine line between "bug" and undocumented feature sometimes ;-).

That said, I kind of like the changes and would prefer UA wait until as late as possible to clear upgrades. Most of my travel is for work (usually not more than 10 days notice). This tends to be put me as a 1K on high fares. I've been pretty successful on upgrades this year. It actually works to my advantage to sort the list based on status/fare, no companions, etc.

Now, when traveling with my 3P SO... the opposite is true. I'd be happy with NC9 and C=0