Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

Earning Status (PQP) on non-016 Tickets and Partner Metal {Archive}

Old Feb 8, 2024, 11:23 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the active thread is Earning Status (PQP) on non-016 Tickets and Partner Metal
Print Wikipost

Earning Status (PQP) on non-016 Tickets and Partner Metal {Archive}

Old Apr 28, 2020, 11:12 am
  #661  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CLE
Programs: UA GS+LT UC, AA EXP+LT PLT, Fairmont LT PLT, Marriott PLT, Hilton DIA, Hyatt Glob, Avis CHM
Posts: 4,687
UA PR confirmed to me that the limit is per flight segment!
ctownflyer is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 11:12 am
  #662  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,245
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
If the "per-segment" 1000 PQP cap is the reality, there still can be some daylight between UA and partner PQP earnings on some really good P fares, depending on origination/destination. My $2250 P HNL-LHR would earn 4000 PQPs (HNL-YYZ-LHR-YYZ-HNL) instead of 7700+ under new cap vs somewhere south of 2000 PQPs on UA (same fare was available, and subtracting taxes/fees).

The ~4x multiplier in my AC vs UA example was too good to be true under $18k/$24K 1K PQP qualification scheme. It would be bonkers crazy under currently lowered requirements.
Is this example a real outlier, though? To get a R/T fare of $2250 for a 7000+ mile flight, sitting up front, seems like something people aren't going to come across all that often.
JimInOhio is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 11:20 am
  #663  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 818
Originally Posted by JimInOhio
Is this example a real outlier, though? To get a R/T fare of $2250 for a 7000+ mile flight, sitting up front, seems like something people aren't going to come across all that often.
Outlier? debatable. Rare? Certainly not, at least for ex-EU fares.

Whilst the MP qualification changes have disproportionately hit non-US members, one thing those who live in in Europe still have are cheap J fares. These will now count for less (qualification wise) on a 016 ticket but will count for more if ticketed and flown by a partner.
kilo is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 11:24 am
  #664  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 15,157
Originally Posted by JimInOhio
Is this example a real outlier, though? To get a R/T fare of $2250 for a 7000+ mile flight, sitting up front, seems like something people aren't going to come across all that often.
Yeah, one has to be lucky. Still, even an AC/UA fares twice as much would still garner more PQPs on AC than on UA. Under the expiring scheme, taking a preferred partner on a P fare was almost a no-think slam dunk. Now, more situations require one to run the numbers
IAH-OIL-TRASH is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 11:27 am
  #665  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,065
Originally Posted by PsiFighter37
It does suck, but admittedly one has to admit that the old rules, which would have allowed for large quantities of PQP to be racked up in other manners, was too big a loophole to last for too long.
Whenever there is an outsized benefit in any system, it will be found and minimized to prevent gaming. Outliers will become more and more difficult as things go forward because programs and algorithms will get more and more sophisticated.
zombietooth is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 11:35 am
  #666  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: AS 75K, DL Silver, UA Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Platinum + LT Gold
Posts: 10,712
Originally Posted by Kacee
Why? DL and AA continue to allow generous, uncapped spend-threshold earnings on partner issued tickets. Not sure why UA believes it's so special. Because its product sure isn't.

Such a customer-hating airline under current management. So glad I am gone.
Too generous, IMO. I'd prefer a true MM program via flying with the carrier program rather than counting partner flights (DL) or credit cards (AA) as lifetime earnings.

What do I know, I enjoy flying regardless of the airline. Status is just a by-product.

Last edited by Repooc17; Apr 28, 2020 at 11:40 am
Repooc17 is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 11:47 am
  #667  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: FLL, MEL, SIN, WAS
Programs: UA*Lifetime GS, Hyatt* Lifetime Globalist
Posts: 12,464
I wonder how UA came up with the 1,500/1,000/750/500 PQP caps. It does not feel they spend a lot time on establishing a cap. Either they put various numbers on a board and threw darts on them or back filled the numbers to meet their internal KPIs set by Kirby's team (of customer unfriendly). The timing of the announcement is probably an indication how out of sync they are.

If I look pass the timing of announcement blunder:

I typically fly 100K BIS on *A partners a year (pre Covid-19) and Based on my Q1 activities this year, the impact would be less PlusPoints earned and and I would fail earning 1K status (based on non- reduced 24K threshold), which means timing differences for earning the 320 PlusPoints. My RDMs are the same.

I flew SQ, TK and LX in Q1 but those routes were EU-Asia, so it would not have made a difference to UA in terms of revenue because they don’t fly those routes. However, on paper, as an Executive Platinum on AA, I would be better off taking my 100K BIS per year flying One World partners and earning towards requalification under normal pre-Covid threshold and earning additional upgrade instruments with AA.

The potential impact to UA. if I start flying One World airlines on routes no flown by UA would be:

1. UA provide less traffic to *A partners
2. With additional upgrade instruments and RDMs on AA, I will likely to fly AA more so I could redeem those upgrades and RDMs.

This is just a quick initial personal impact analysis, but now with the confirmation the cap is based on per ticket not per segment. I will need to go back and assess on the per segment basis. The net impact may or may not be as much based on my initial pre ticket calculation.
UA_Flyer is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 12:39 pm
  #668  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Programs: UA LT GS | UA LT Club | Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 1,250
The point of airline partnerships is to take passengers where one of the airlines doesn't fly. In this new point-to-point model, which partnerships does UA really need?

Thai: UA dropping 2 birds a day into Singapore.
SQ: UA dropping 2 birds a day into Singapore. Good luck to SQ in maintaining flights like EWR-SIN or SFO-HKG.
Air India: UA dropping 3-4 birds a day into Delhi and Mumbai.
Air China: UA dropping multiple birds a day into HK, Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu.
Asian: Same story in Korea
EVA: Same story in Taiwan
South African: Now flying to Cape Town...
TAP: Now flying to Porto...
If you short-hop on any of the partners above, then the caps are fine.

Of the legalized collusion partners (Lufthansa, New Zealand, ANA) UA is saying book it on 016 stock, so you are forced to use the higher fare classes that UA makes available. They have no interest in 50% of the $700 r/t LH charges to go from SFO-DXB...

UA's Bottom Line: If you want the thousands of dollars of 'cash-back' associated with our premium MP tiers, FLY OUR BIRDS!!!
spartacusmcfly is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 12:42 pm
  #669  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, AA, DL
Posts: 7,463
Originally Posted by UA_Flyer
I wonder how UA came up with the 1,500/1,000/750/500 PQP caps. It does not feel they spend a lot time on establishing a cap. Either they put various numbers on a board and threw darts on them or back filled the numbers to meet their internal KPIs set by Kirby's team (of customer unfriendly). The timing of the announcement is probably an indication how out of sync they are.
Would seem sensible to reflect three things:
1) Round numbers
2) Limiting high PQPs from cheap TPAC/TATL fares
3) Availability of PQPs on comparable UA flights

2 is covered by effectively capping PQPs at flights over 3750 miles (750*5), which is a decent share of TATL and pretty much all TPAC.
3 is less perfect but with these caps unless you're buying the deepest discount fares you're likely to do better on UA metal.
drewguy is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 12:51 pm
  #670  
st3
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TPA
Programs: United MP
Posts: 465
When UA announced the MP changes with PQP and how PQP is calculated on *A flights everyone was very quick to analyze the data and point out that UA would probably correct this as they were "incentivizing you to fly other airlines." Well, now that they are fixing that imbalance and of course everyone is quick to point that out. Why they would do it now exactly? I am not sure, maybe the extra downtime for some internal people at UA has given the analysts more time to dissect this information? With the JV or preferred partners I wonder how much information UA could get from them if they asked.
st3 is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 12:56 pm
  #671  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CLE
Programs: UA GS+LT UC, AA EXP+LT PLT, Fairmont LT PLT, Marriott PLT, Hilton DIA, Hyatt Glob, Avis CHM
Posts: 4,687
Originally Posted by st3
When UA announced the MP changes with PQP and how PQP is calculated on *A flights everyone was very quick to analyze the data and point out that UA would probably correct this as they were "incentivizing you to fly other airlines." Well, now that they are fixing that imbalance and of course everyone is quick to point that out. Why they would do it now exactly? I am not sure, maybe the extra downtime for some internal people at UA has given the analysts more time to dissect this information? With the JV or preferred partners I wonder how much information UA could get from them if they asked.
Better question is how did the program designers not see it if we all saw it?
ctownflyer is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 1:00 pm
  #672  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,536
First, this was never a "loophole" - it was a policy decision, in line with other airlines with similar programs.

Anyway, if I interpret this change correctly, we just need watch the fare construction of any partner discount business tickets to see how it will change the allocation of PQP or if additional segments are needed to make up for the cap.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 28, 2020 at 1:25 pm Reason: Discuss the issue, not the poster(s)
bocastephen is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 1:08 pm
  #673  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ROC/NYC/MSP/LAX/HKG/SIN
Posts: 3,216
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
If the "per-segment" 1000 PQP cap is the reality, there still can be some daylight between UA and partner PQP earnings on some really good P fares, depending on origination/destination. My $2250 P HNL-LHR would earn 4000 PQPs (HNL-YYZ-LHR-YYZ-HNL) instead of 7700+ under new cap vs somewhere south of 2000 PQPs on UA (same fare was available, and subtracting taxes/fees).

The ~4x multiplier in my AC vs UA example was too good to be true under $18k/$24K 1K PQP qualification scheme. It would be bonkers crazy under currently lowered requirements.
Connect twice instead of three times, when you can enjoy the lieflat HNL-YYZ to probably HNL-YVR-YYZ or something else? Boy, it gets too complicated. Too complicated to worry about status in UA, when my current job does not force me to fly on UA exclusively.

Thank god I wrapped up the MM status a few years ago.
PaulInTheSky is online now  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 1:27 pm
  #674  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,486
Would it be fair to assume the 1500 PQP cap per segment remains based on miles flown rather than revenue allocated to a given segment?

For instance, take EWR-YVR-HKG in AC P, AC stock. EWR-YVR 2429mi, YVR-HKG 6392mi. Previously, AC P earned PQP at 40% of flown miles.

Original Partner PQP scheme:
EWR-YVR 972 PQP
YVR-HKG 2557 PQP
Total: 3529 PQP

Revised Partner PQP scheme:
EWR-YVR 972 PQP (<1500 PQP)
YVR-HKG 1500 PQP (>1500 PQP)
Total: 2472 PQP

So, if PQP for a given segment exceeds 1500, it is capped at 1500 for that segment. Anything less, I assume, would credit based on the published ratios.
EWR764 is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2020, 1:38 pm
  #675  
ffI
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AA EXP2M, DL 1MM DM ext, UA PP <=> HH G/Marr PE/Hyatt G/IHG P FT RA ( Recovering Addict)
Posts: 4,614
Originally Posted by ctownflyer
Better question is how did the program designers not see it if we all saw it?
They are not looking at getting value - they are looking at suppressing value
ffI is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.