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Earning Status (PQP) on non-016 Tickets and Partner Metal {Archive}

Old Feb 8, 2024, 11:23 pm
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Earning Status (PQP) on non-016 Tickets and Partner Metal {Archive}

Old Oct 20, 2019, 9:52 am
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mduell
Given our experience with PQD, I do not believe this will be the case with PQP. We've seen cases where the PQD associated with segments were in excess of the fare component plus entire YQ (and then on the same ticket where the PQD associated with the segments were less than the fare component alone).
That's probably true.. I think we can all agree that mixed metal tickets are a complete mess. I have also experienced many times after a ticket change when the total PQD is not even close to the correct YQ+fare total. It's hard to really say what's a bug and what's deliberate.
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 9:58 am
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by findark
That's probably true.. I think we can all agree that mixed metal tickets are a complete mess. I have also experienced many times after a ticket change when the total PQD is not even close to the correct YQ+fare total. It's hard to really say what's a bug and what's deliberate.
Maybe Yogi Berra did the programming.

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/yogi_berra_162048
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 10:05 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by zombietooth
I've noticed that too over the years, but this is likely an un-fixable problem, no? So, it'll add some unpredictable factors to the partner PQP scheme.
I think we just have some misunderstanding in our guesses about how PQD is calculated.

Originally Posted by findark
That's probably true.. I think we can all agree that mixed metal tickets are a complete mess. I have also experienced many times after a ticket change when the total PQD is not even close to the correct YQ+fare total. It's hard to really say what's a bug and what's deliberate.
The stuff where it's not close to the fare+YQ is a bug. I think the allocation when the total is correct is just our lack of understanding of how UA is choosing to do the computation for allocation.
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 10:49 am
  #34  
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Originally Posted by findark
AC P is definitely the best deal out there, to the point where I would be very surprised if it is not "enhanced away" in the next few months. There is significant risk of booking this for travel far in the future and getting stuck with a bait-and-switch. I honestly hesitated a little to post this thread since it provides a roadmap for UA to fix this, but surely they would have done it anyway (I hope...).
Well, these are bilateral contracts. If AC is willing to keep paying UAs rates in order to get 200% RDM on P fares, I imagine UA will continue to take the money. Now, if UA saw this as an opportunity to try to increase their rates, and AC balks, then sure.

Originally Posted by findark
Do we have this in writing from UA anywhere? It's the obvious answer, but I couldn't find it.

Yeah, its on the main status qualification page, but was left out of the MileagePlus Updates page: https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...r/qualify.html

Originally Posted by mduell
The stuff where it's not close to the fare+YQ is a bug. I think the allocation when the total is correct is just our lack of understanding of how UA is choosing to do the computation for allocation.
Most of the time, they seem to use a calculation that works out to the ratio of the great circle distance for a segment to the total distance in that direction of travel, multiplied by the fare in that direction (base + surcharges). I think this is true even when there is a fare break. When I have mixed-metal itineraries, the PQ/M calculation that I do tends to come out about the same for all airlines involved at least when the earnings ratios are all the same, anyway.
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 11:10 am
  #35  
 
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Thanks, findark, for sharing this post. It will now be more important than ever, of course, to know what fare class one is purchasing for each flight on a non-016 ticket, which I have found virtually impossible to obtain on *A partner websites, so I usually end up purchasing them on Expedia, the one OTA I know that clearly shows the class fare.
I would be happy to book directly with AC, LH, ANA, etc., if I could figure out how to clearly and easily discover the fare class in the booking process. Are there significant advantages of booking directly on a partner airline site vs. an OTA like Expedia that shows the class fare? If this question has been clearly answered somewhere else (I couldn't find anything), feel free to just point me in that direction.

Last edited by ajharrison; Oct 20, 2019 at 11:20 am
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 11:22 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by jsloan
Most of the time, they seem to use a calculation that works out to the ratio of the great circle distance for a segment to the total distance in that direction of travel, multiplied by the fare in that direction (base + surcharges).
Kind of, sort of, except when they don't, which is what leads me to believe we have some incorrect guesses. It could also be based off the full fares, which do roughly scale with mileage, which would explain some of our observations. But that has its own issues.
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 11:30 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by ajharrison
Thanks, findark, for sharing this post. It will now be more important than ever, of course, to know what fare class one is purchasing for each flight on a non-016 ticket, which I have found virtually impossible to obtain on *A partner websites, so I usually end up purchasing them on Expedia, the one OTA I know that clearly shows the class fare.
I would be happy to book directly with AC, LH, ANA, etc., if I could figure out how to clearly and easily discover the fare class in the booking process. Are there significant advantages of booking directly on a partner airline site vs. an OTA like Expedia that shows the class fare? If this question has been clearly answered somewhere else (I couldn't find anything), feel free to just point me in that direction.
I search for tickets first on ITA Matrix ( https://matrix.itasoftware.com ). If the fare that you get on the website matches the fare from ITA, its a pretty good bet that the fare classes will match also. (Its not 100%, but its at least 99.9%).

Originally Posted by mduell
Kind of, sort of, except when they don't, which is what leads me to believe we have some incorrect guesses. It could also be based off the full fares, which do roughly scale with mileage, which would explain some of our observations. But that has its own issues.
The ratios of the full fares are used for involuntary refunds, so that would make sense, but I really dont think theyd line up with mileage as well as they seem to if that were the normal case. I do agree that the system sometimes gets confused.
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 1:16 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by ajharrison
Thanks, findark, for sharing this post. It will now be more important than ever, of course, to know what fare class one is purchasing for each flight on a non-016 ticket, which I have found virtually impossible to obtain on *A partner websites, so I usually end up purchasing them on Expedia, the one OTA I know that clearly shows the class fare.
I would be happy to book directly with AC, LH, ANA, etc., if I could figure out how to clearly and easily discover the fare class in the booking process. Are there significant advantages of booking directly on a partner airline site vs. an OTA like Expedia that shows the class fare? If this question has been clearly answered somewhere else (I couldn't find anything), feel free to just point me in that direction.
Finding fare class on ANA and LH websites is crazy easy
ANA just flat out tells you when you click on a radio button
LH, you have to click the carrot and the drop down tells you
BR, SQ and a few others also have the onformation readily available....
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 4:11 pm
  #39  
 
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I am curious how United makes money on these partner tickets. I know several 1K and GS colleagues who pretty much only book united over partners for overseas flights due to status qualification (assuming no major schedule impacts). The few I have spoken with said they are grateful for the ability to book partner airlines for the better food and higher quality of service.

United basically opened the door to high spend 1K/GS to qualify via international partner fares, and also UA benefit from UA benefits on all thier domestic flights. How is that not a huge blow to UAs top line revenue? Unless they get paid out because the flights are credited back to MP?
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 4:22 pm
  #40  
 
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As suggested I'll post this here as well.

I wrote some PHP to calculate the PQP earnings on non016. It's still very much a work in progress since I'm missing most of the airlines and the fareclasses.
I was more focused on getting it to work with the data I had.

Over the next few days I'll try to add all missing airlines including fareclasses and percentages.

The formula works as follows:

Distance (from gcmap.com) * Percent (based on Carrier and Fareclass) / 5 (or 6 based on Carrier)
eg. FRA-EWR with LH in K would be 3780mi * 0.25 / 5 = 193PQP

You can try it if you'd like.

http://pqp-calc.com

Feedback is much appreciated

Last edited by nubbeldupp; Oct 20, 2019 at 4:45 pm Reason: Added formula
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 4:30 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by pretzlaff
Regarding bulk tickets on 016 stock for UA flights...for about a week, my accruals for 2020 flights were showing a pqp and award miles based on that. But about two days ago, the pqp disappeared and the reward miles were reduced to what seems like 25% of mileage. So the new specialty ticket table has been implemented.
Sorry to pop everyone's bubble but just saw this as a footnote on the PQP FAQ:

The following exclusions on earning award miles and Premier qualifying credits, including PQP, apply:
...
Certain specialty tickets beyond those outlined above (including but not limited to unpublished, consolidator/, group, tour and opaque tickets) are not eligible for earning toward Premier qualifying points (PQP).
Perhaps I'm misreading it but these consolidator fares may earn RDM but will from now on earn 0 PQP?

Safe Travels,

James
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 4:32 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Mama
Are you saying you don't need the 54 UA segment requirement if you rely on partner flight PQP to qualify for 1K?
I don't think so.
As long as you have the four segment minimum on United, 24kPQP should get you to 1K.
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 4:43 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by scracer14
I am curious how United makes money on these partner tickets. I know several 1K and GS colleagues who pretty much only book united over partners for overseas flights due to status qualification (assuming no major schedule impacts). The few I have spoken with said they are grateful for the ability to book partner airlines for the better food and higher quality of service.

United basically opened the door to high spend 1K/GS to qualify via international partner fares, and also UA benefit from UA benefits on all thier domestic flights. How is that not a huge blow to UAs top line revenue? Unless they get paid out because the flights are credited back to MP?
I think GS needs to fly on UA metal in order requalify, so most of that business is locked in. 1K can requalify on partner carriers, but most of the preferred carriers have JV with UA, except for AV, CA, CM and AC TPAC/Latam traffic. It remains to be seen what revenue impact it will have. Outside of FT, I doubt there will be that many elites who will actively compare 016 vs. non-016 PQP accruals, most will continue to book tickets as usual based on price and schedule.
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 5:39 pm
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by hirohito888
I think GS needs to fly on UA metal in order requalify, so most of that business is locked in. 1K can requalify on partner carriers, but most of the preferred carriers have JV with UA, except for AV, CA, CM and AC TPAC/Latam traffic. It remains to be seen what revenue impact it will have. Outside of FT, I doubt there will be that many elites who will actively compare 016 vs. non-016 PQP accruals, most will continue to book tickets as usual based on price and schedule.

Yeah, gives us "Tweeners" something some GS can't do

I'll never make GS, but I also never have issues qualifying 1K
So, that means I can fly ANA and LH all I want and get upgrades from PE to J and J to F. I can also fly AC as well, but no instrument upgrades

Kind of "Best of both worlds"

Now, I am sure there are GS who have NO problem requalifying GS and can do the same thing, but they were probably already doing it
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Old Oct 20, 2019, 9:12 pm
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by Hipplewm
Finding fare class on ANA and LH websites is crazy easy
ANA just flat out tells you when you click on a radio button
LH, you have to click the carrot and the drop down tells you
BR, SQ and a few others also have the onformation readily available....
Thanks that's helpful for me
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