United 787 and 321 Order - Oct 2023

Old Oct 3, 2023, 6:35 am
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United 787 and 321 Order - Oct 2023

Reading a headline on Bloomberg, and it appears UA and Airbus are near a deal to order more A321s. It explicitly states this would be on top of the 120 already on order (70 321neos and 50 XLRs) but does not say how large an order except it will be in double digits. I would think it is likely to be more 321neos, but maybe they get some A320neos? Hard to envision more XLRs at this point.
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 6:43 am
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Link here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...?sref=DNXkDX6q

Has the first one been delivered yet? (I don't think it has, but not positive...)
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 7:46 am
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United 787 and 321 Order - Oct 2023

Just came across the wire BLOOMBERG - UNITED AIRLINES TO ANNOUNCE ORDER TUESDAY FOR 50 787 DREAMLINERS FROM BOEING - SOURCE

This is on top of a Reuters report that UA is set to order 50 321s today too.

I can't tell if the 787s are new orders or option conversions. I don't know if UA has 321 options.

This would bring firm orders on the books to
787- 150
737 - ~380
321 - 180 (70 neo, 50 XLR, 60 TBD)
350 - 45
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 7:51 am
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I am on my Bloomberg terminal and see the A321 news, but I do not see the 787 order.
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 8:10 am
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Reuters article has been updated. Looks like 60 more A321neos on top of the 70 they have on order. (I consider the order of 50 A321neoXLRs separate as it is a different aircraft for replacing the 757-200s). 50 more 787s would fill out replacing any remaining existing widebody aircraft except the 787s currently in service and the 777-300ERs that would not have been replaced by the existing 100 787 order. Would be nice to know which model. United begins taking new 787-9s next year, rumoured with a larger Polaris cabin and have the IGW that Boeing previously unveiled, which may mean a return of LAX-SIN within the next few years.
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 8:16 am
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Originally Posted by Longboater
Reuters article has been updated. Looks like 60 more A321neos on top of the 70 they have on order. (I consider the order of 50 A321neoXLRs separate as it is a different aircraft for replacing the 757-200s).
I don't seem mention of neo vs XLR on the article or any sourcing I can find
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 8:49 am
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Originally Posted by N104UA
I don't seem mention of neo vs XLR on the article or any sourcing I can find
It would be the standard neos rather than XLR as the XLR is for replacing the 757s on thin TATL/Deep SA flying, along with probably some DEN-Hawai'i flying.
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 9:01 am
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Well the fleet needs a refresh so this is good news. Once upon a time United was primarily a Boeing shop and now its a best fit/best price buyer. Boeing left too big a whole that the MAX line can't fill.
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 9:03 am
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Extra 321s prob puts an end to the 350 deal.
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 9:10 am
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Originally Posted by N104UA
Just came across the wire BLOOMBERG - UNITED AIRLINES TO ANNOUNCE ORDER TUESDAY FOR 50 787 DREAMLINERS FROM BOEING - SOURCE

This is on top of a Reuters report that UA is set to order 50 321s today too.

I can't tell if the 787s are new orders or option conversions. I don't know if UA has 321 options.
The 50 787 firms up half of the option of 100 in the previous order.
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 9:27 am
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Originally Posted by cv11nyc
Extra 321s prob puts an end to the 350 deal.
UA could infinitely postpone these A350 orders until B77Ws are ready for retirements.
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 9:29 am
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Originally Posted by cv11nyc
Extra 321s prob puts an end to the 350 deal.
There is still the RR engine order issue.
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 9:42 am
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Originally Posted by Longboater
It would be the standard neos rather than XLR as the XLR is for replacing the 757s on thin TATL/Deep SA flying, along with probably some DEN-Hawai'i flying.
I would think it will be the Neos but until I see any sourcing in type I am not confident. This order very well could be split.

Originally Posted by cv11nyc
Extra 321s prob puts an end to the 350 deal.
I think this has been said 5 million times in FT and it never has come true, I will believe it when I see it.

Originally Posted by Infinite1K
The 50 787 firms up half of the option of 100 in the previous order.
Do you have sourcing?

Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
There is still the RR engine order issue.
I am sure UA could figure out something with these engines, maybe get LH to take over the order for the 350s they just ordered.
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 9:49 am
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
There is still the RR engine order issue.
It could be just playing coy, but Kirby has debunked that issue publicly before.

My view, and I think this is supported by the numbers, is that the current-generation A350 with the Trent XWB engine does not offer United enough (or any) of an operating cost advantage over the 787 that would justify inducting an entirely new fleet for missions that UA already has a good or good-enough solution. The calculus probably changes if United was seriously interested in one or more of three options: a dedicated ultra-long-hauler (thinking EWR-SIN/SYD, etc.); a 777-200ER replacement now, as opposed to at the end of the decade; or a 777-300ER replacement in the next 3-5 years. I think the A350 is probably the best platform for those missions at the moment. The reduced China flying for the foreseeable future, and Russian overflight issues, probably militate against the A350, too.

I believe United is waiting to see if RR can actually deliver the Ultrafan, and if it can meet specs. If it does, that makes an A350neo a fantastic solution at the top of United's fleet, as a lighter, just as capable option as the 777X. The order is leverage.
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Old Oct 3, 2023, 10:41 am
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A320neo doesn't make much sense for a 737 MAX operator, so I'd guess A321neo/LR/XLR.
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