spartacusmcfly

I was curious to see how Tata would play with other Star Alliance members -- especially United from the US. We're starting to get our answer. Looks like the dynamic will be similar to how Singapore interacts with United. Minimal cooperation with deep underlying competition.

This is good as it will keep prices reasonable on India routes and avoids the legalized collusion dynamic that exists with UA/ANA and UA/LH.

Does this mean UA can no longer sell me Newark to Delhi via Emirates on a single ticket? Or does this mean the code share is blocked so UA way can't generate partial revenue from the Dubai-India segment, but still sell me an integrated ticket?

This Russian airspace issue isn't getting any easier for UA to navigate.
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https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/government-refuses-united-emirates-codeshare-on-routes-from-india/articleshow/100787719.cms

jsloan

It means that the codeshare is blocked. It has nothing to do with revenue.

This... makes no sense. I think you're fundamentally confused about what a codeshare is. Do you really think Tata is doing this to try to keep prices low? They're trying to ensure that prices stay high.

spartacusmcfly

The article states it does. Maybe read it before responding.

They're doing it to keep United out of India. United has no choice but to eat it right now given the Russian issue. However, when Russian airspace reopens, United will unleash a fleet of 789s into India. That intense competition will keep prices low. Economics 101.

I was nervous Tata would go down a legalized collusion path with UA. Not going to happen!

tods27

The link you posted is behind a paywall/registration, so it isn't really easy for people to read it.

This doesn't seem to be about AI codeshares with UA, or even a JV (like UA/LH TATL), it's about allowing UA to codeshare with EK. Maybe in the article they note how AI was involved, but it seems like this has more to do with EK access to India and adding in UA access via EK.

Lux Flyer

Maybe understand how fare filings work before you tell someone off for what an article incorrectly states when they're answering your question. Nothing is preventing EK from joining a UA fare filing from USA to India, using an EK flight number/booking code requirements that allows a routing via DXB and travel on EK for the DXB-India segment. All it does is prevent UA putting their flight number on the DXB-India flight. The arrangement would then be akin to how HX/CX/etc join fare filings UA has that route via HKG with specific booking code requirements. Or how Vistara joins fare filings that route via DEL.


No, they're doing it to play protectionist towards AI. All it would take is the US to respond in kind by prohibiting foreign carriers who overfly Russia airspace from landing on US soil and the games would stop.

Repooc17

Has already been proposed for carriers coming to the US currently overflowing Russian airspace. Nothing is going to happen except a bunch of empty threats.

angetenar

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Increased frequencies from Chinese carriers when they went from 8x to 12x weekly are all avoiding Russian airspace so even if there isn't a formal regulation, there is still pressure.

aindfan

This question was my reaction to the news... does it actually matter to me as a traveler if the UA code is on a bunch of EK flights if I can still buy EWR-(UA)-DXB-(EK)-HYD/BLR/etc.? I feel like I've never had any actual benefit from a codeshare flight, only issues with seat assignments.

WineCountryUA

Codeshare are not generally a traveller benefit, it is a marketing ploy.

Except -- will this impact "Fly America" travelers?

jsloan

The benefits of codeshares are wildly exaggerated by many � see the rapturous discussion of this very arrangement, in fact. The truth is, the only truly meaningful thing that comes out of a codeshare arrangement is limited antitrust immunity to set schedules jointly. Absent that arrangement, it may be a violation of antitrust law for UA to set up its EWR-DXB flight so that connections on EK are convenient (because other carriers ex-DXB are disadvantaged).

Yes, it would impact the Fly America Act if there is an alternative on a flight coded on a US airline.

mduell

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...240Z/VIDP/UHMM

I wonder if this will change the dynamic if the Tata owned carriers have to start avoiding Russia as part of the fallout.

spartacusmcfly

Yes, that's the whole point of this thread. Tata owns Air India.

The US is doing that with China, but from India, certain routes become unflyable if forced to avoid Russian airspace.

Lux Flyer

I am well aware of who the players are. There is a difference between "keeping United out" and AI protectionism. Russia's war with Ukraine and the inability of US carriers to overfly Russian airspace is what is keeping UA out of India, not this decision. United's EVP for network planning has said multiple times UA had plans for both this past and current year to fly to India 5x daily but had to scrap those due to Russia-Ukraine. This decision is about keeping AI an option they need to (unfortunately) engage with for getting passengers to destinations in India beyond DEL. But it's not keeping UA out of India.

The fare filings that already exist for the exact situation I mentioned? Going onward from DXB on EK to India, absent a codeshare? You do realize you can buy USA-India connecting via DXB without the UA code share already? These are UA fare filings. They're already getting the money to transport to India, codeshare or not; regardless of if you think the article you posted it more correct than what Jsloan and I are saying this means regarding revenue.





edit: more for other india destinations. It's not hard to see why they would prefer partnering with airlines other than AI that allow them to provide better routings and prices, and not have to cannibalize space on their flight to DEL with passengers connecting onwards.

edit; and more to MAA

jsloan

If, not when, Russian airspace reopens to US traffic…

UA has shown, time and time again, that they are as disinterested in competing on price as one could possibly be and still run an airline. They will fly routes that they believe can be profitable for them at current fare levels; they're absolutely not going to go in with the mindset of trying to keep prices low and grabbing low-yielding traffic. It's not their MO, and it hasn't been under any of the post-merger management teams.

UA will absolutely drop India before they will engage in a price war.

WineCountryUA

Let's turn the personal comments down -- stick to the issues, report but donot response to inappropriate posts.

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator