Abandoned by United in SFO

Old Mar 27, 2023, 8:46 pm
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Abandoned by United in SFO

Have airlines stopped automatically rebooking passengers they know will not make a connection?

Because a couple days ago, as we traveled Kona-SFO-EWR, our flight into SFO arrived late and we were promptly abandoned by United. In short: the 777 into Kona arrived late because - as was explained to us - a covering part for a door alarm had gone missing and it took the crew near an hour to locate it before they could depart. Once in Kona the airport clearing crew, notoriously slow as was explained to us, took forever to turn the plane. As the minutes ticked by we were told before we boarded and multiple times on the plane that passengers with "tight connections" should make their flights, the planes will be held if necessary to allow you to get to the gate. "Don't worry," we heard more than once. We had a scheduled two hour connection time or thereabouts in SFO.

As you can imagine: we landed in SFO and sat on the runway for 15+ minutes because our gate was occupied. During this "hold" the captain asked all passengers without tight connections to please remain seated as those who had to run could get off the plane. He again said "they know you are coming for your connections." We arrived in the F concourse and had to run only about five gates, and did so in a couple of minutes at most, hand luggage trailing behind us We arrived at the EWR bound gate at just about the departure time (not after) and while the plane was still there, the supervisor said "no go." "We are not and will not hold the plane, no one told us to do so. There must have been a miscommunication." More than 15 of us pleaded to let us on but she would not budge. She showed no empathy, expressed no sympathy and said we should all head to the rebooking desk to "see what they can do for you." Meanwhile, we later saw our EWR bound plane sit at the gate for at least another 20 minutes before departing.

At now 11 pm at night the rebooking desk was staffed with newbies, as they told us. Two were in training, along with a more senior person. Of course, they could findi no later flights, they said. Until they did - after 45 minutes of looking deeply into their computer screens. Even as a supervisor later that night told us "they should have placed you on the last flight to EWR, with priority above any standbys." Long story short, after booking our own flights on another carrier (and thankfully being able to cancel them a couple hours later without penalty) space was found for us on AA the next morning. We wound up sleeping at SFO for a few hours and not using the hotel voucher offered by United. It was a near 24 hour trip home from Kona.

To sum it all up: we and everyone else that night felt terribly treated by United. Worse than luggage (which United failed to get onto our AA flight by the way) and are very disappointed nothing was done proactively by United when it was obvious our connection was going to b missed and why the captain and FAs repeatedly told passengers en route to SFO that they had called ahead and "you should make your connections." We were lied to. Absent those statements we would have been proactive back in Kona. We have now learned that lesson. None of the connections as best we could tell were held, and these were all redeye flights heading east out of SFO. Would other carriers have done a better job? I'm not sure but I know the performance by United was abysmal. On top of it all - and not that it should matter - we were traveling in F class, but all of us were in the same boat.

Travelers heading home from KOA on United via a connection beware. It is a route we shall never take again.
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Old Mar 27, 2023, 9:27 pm
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A sad story, but unfortunately all too common. When the flight crew tells you that connecting flights will be held, this is often just not true, as you discovered. When you arrived at the gate at SFO for the last flight of the day and were not allowed to board, this is so aggravating. I think we have all experienced this inflexible attitude. The gate agent / supervisor would know that 15 pax were about to arrive from UAs delayed Kona flight. Then the plane sits for 20 minutes! Flying can be an unpleasant experience. 😳
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Last edited by restlessinRNO; Mar 27, 2023 at 9:32 pm
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Old Mar 27, 2023, 9:50 pm
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In my experience, when delays cause very tight connections, the best strategy is to wait until you are sure the connection will be very tight and then to text a family member who can call United. Agents can contact SFO and inform them of the situation. Not saying it always worked, but it has worked sometimes.
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Old Mar 27, 2023, 10:03 pm
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Theres a couple of things that go into holding/ not holding a plane for connections.

One is the number of passengers connecting to the flight. Another is the number of connections that might be messed up on the other end. Another is gate space (is that gate needed?). Still another is FAA-mandated crew limits on duty hours. The gate attendant does not make the call to hold/no hold. Theres a team at UA that does. I did not believe UA callously stranded you there - there is significant cost to UA in doing so (hotel vouchers, reaccomodation on OAL, etc).

My guess is the latter (crew hours) forced UA to go, rather than wait for 15.

As for, Travelers heading home from KOA on United via a connection beware. It is a route we shall never take again., a rare incident does not make it a common incident. If you want to avoid any airline that has stranded a passenger from Hawaii at a connecting point, you wont fly to Hawaii anymore because EVERY SINGLE ONE HAS.

Ive traveled to the mainland about monthly since 2012 from Hawaii (almost always w/ connections) and the last time I was stranded on a trip from Hawaii was back in 2013. If my first trip was that stranding trip, and if I was dumb enough to think UA was always like that, I would have lost out on what has turned out to be a very reliable airline (outside of the on-board food). I probably just jinxed myself
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Last edited by IAH-OIL-TRASH; Mar 27, 2023 at 10:36 pm
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Old Mar 27, 2023, 10:06 pm
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Originally Posted by flyr16
Have airlines stopped automatically rebooking passengers they know will not make a connection?
Not all, but many. United, for the most part, has indeed stopped. Also, they had no definitive way of knowing that you would not make your connection.

Originally Posted by flyr16
He again said "they know you are coming for your connections."
Did he also say that they will hold your connecting flight for you?

Originally Posted by flyr16
We arrived at the EWR bound gate at just about the departure time (not after) and while the plane was still there, the supervisor said "no go." "We are not and will not hold the plane, no one told us to do so. There must have been a miscommunication."
That wasn't nice, but there wasn't necessarily a miscommunication as the gate agent certainly knew who was outstanding / connecting; here is what that looks like:



Originally Posted by flyr16
More than 15 of us pleaded to let us on but she would not budge. She showed no empathy, expressed no sympathy and said we should all head to the rebooking desk to "see what they can do for you." Meanwhile, we later saw our EWR bound plane sit at the gate for at least another 20 minutes before departing.
Again, not nice, but there are a variety of factors that go into determining whether a flight can be held for connecting passengers. For more detailed information on the "rules" about when and how long a gate agent is allowed to hold a flight past departure time, take a look here: https://crankyflier.com/2019/06/20/a...nnectionsaver/

It may very well have been that the NOC would have authorized a delayed departure for that flight under other circumstances, but . . .

Also, there is a reason (crew time-out) to close the door urgently, but that then pushing back the aircraft for another 20 minutes wouldn't really make a difference.

Originally Posted by flyr16
It was a near 24 hour trip home from Kona.
Sorry.

Originally Posted by flyr16
To sum it all up: we and everyone else that night felt terribly treated by United.
I can understand why you feel that way; after the misconnection, things went south rather quickly.

Originally Posted by flyr16
Would other carriers have done a better job?
No, United actually is better than others for the most part in this area in my experience.
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Old Mar 27, 2023, 11:12 pm
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I just dont accept that UA throws up their hands and says nothing we can do for you, spend the night at SFO . KOA-SFO is a five hour flight. So UA had five hours to do something to help these delayed transfer pax. Did someone check to see if crew duty hours allowed the EWR flight to be held for 10 minutes? Were they automatically rebooked on other flights so they didn't need to line up at the understaffed UA desk for 45 minutes to make new travel arrangements? Was the arriving flight from KOA given priority for an arrival gate? As a result, not only were these pax inconvenienced, UA winds up paying more for hotels, and rescheduled flights. 💰
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Old Mar 28, 2023, 12:20 am
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UA had the ConnectionSaver(tm) before COVID. Guess it is enhanced away during these years.
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Old Mar 28, 2023, 12:29 am
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Originally Posted by khkchan
UA had the ConnectionSaver(tm) before COVID. Guess it is enhanced away during these years.
No it is still there. ConnectionSaver does not guarantee all connections would be saved. It is a process that determines which flights can be held (taking into account various factors) for connecting passengers. ConnectionSaver actually benefits both UA and passengers, so it was not “enhanced away”. All passengers did not miraculously make their connections pre-Covid, even with ConnectionSaver in place.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 28, 2023 at 1:02 am Reason: Discuss the issue, not the poster
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Old Mar 28, 2023, 12:59 am
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Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
Theres a couple of things that go into holding/ not holding a plane for connections.

One is the number of passengers connecting to the flight. Another is the number of connections that might be messed up on the other end. Another is gate space (is that gate needed?). Still another is FAA-mandated crew limits on duty hours. The gate attendant does not make the call to hold/no hold. Theres a team at UA that does. I did not believe UA callously stranded you there - there is significant cost to UA in doing so (hotel vouchers, reaccomodation on OAL, etc).

My guess is the latter (crew hours) forced UA to go, rather than wait for 15.
Very informative post! While you may be correct that a lot of deliberate and rational decision-making by UA went on the background, per the OP's account they were in fact treated quite callously by the first UA rep with whom they had direct contact on the ground at SFO, namely the gate agent for the onward flight. If the reason was crew time-out, for example, why didn't the GA just say so? Or if the real issue was that "no instructions were received" why wasn't that news delivered along with an apology for the miscommunication on behalf of UA? Neither of these gestures would have changed the outcome in this situation but I submit that they would have likely changed the subjective passenger experience of the missed connection ....
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Old Mar 28, 2023, 1:00 am
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Originally Posted by khkchan
UA had the ConnectionSaver(tm) before COVID. Guess it is enhanced away during these years.
ConnetionSaver is still going strong
In 2022, over 650,000 passenger connections were saved with ConnectionSaver, resulting in United achieving the lowest misconnect rate ever for the fourth quarter and full year (excluding 2020/2021).
but is is not always possible for all flights.A number factors go into its implementation. UA does ConnectionSaver because it saves UA money.
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Old Mar 28, 2023, 1:35 am
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Originally Posted by restlessinRNO
A sad story, but unfortunately all too common. When the flight crew tells you that connecting flights will be held, this is often just not true, as you discovered. When you arrived at the gate at SFO for the last flight of the day and were not allowed to board, this is so aggravating. I think we have all experienced this inflexible attitude. The gate agent / supervisor would know that 15 pax were about to arrive from UAs delayed Kona flight. Then the plane sits for 20 minutes! Flying can be an unpleasant experience. 😳
The airlines try to encourage the close-connection customers to make a quick dash to try to make the originally scheduled connections even when the chances of making the connection are fast approaching zero. Just a way for the airline to minimize its costs to re-accommodate misconnecting passengers (and even luggage). Now, Im sort of curious if UA has ever been sued for a passenger having gotten injured or having had some other adverse health issue triggered because of an airline employee negligently encouraging passengers to make a mad dash for a scheduled connection that wasnt really possible any longer at the time of being told to quickly proceed to the gate for the UA flight for which they hold a boarding pass already.
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Old Mar 28, 2023, 2:32 am
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When I read the title saying "abandoned" I was expecting something along the lines of the WN meltdown in December where people were given no options. Not being told to go to a 45 minute line where you ended up getting a hotel voucher and rebooking onto another airline. For future, every hub is equipped with agent on demand, so you should be able to video call an agent through the app instead of waiting in line.

Originally Posted by flyr16
Have airlines stopped automatically rebooking passengers they know will not make a connection?
They do, but not on close calls where the misconnect isn't clearly going to happen. If you're going to miss it by an hour, sure automated rebooking systems are more likely to start processing it, depending what options are available. Something close where time might be made up or a ConnectionSaver might beable to be invoked, nope they won't automatically do it in advance.

Originally Posted by restlessinRNO
I just don’t accept that UA throws up their hands and says nothing we can do for you, spend the night at SFO . KOA-SFO is a five hour flight. So UA had five hours to do something to help these delayed transfer pax. Did someone check to see if crew duty hours allowed the EWR flight to be held for 10 minutes? Were they automatically rebooked on other flights so they didn't need to line up at the understaffed UA desk for 45 minutes to make new travel arrangements? Was the arriving flight from KOA given priority for an arrival gate? As a result, not only were these pax inconvenienced, UA winds up paying more for hotels, and rescheduled flights. 💰
Yep all those things get considered, but it's not as easy as you make it sound, even with automation to help make those decisions since airports are giant logistical puzzles. There is limited gate availability, limited staff, equipment, etc. The KOA-SFO usually gets in about 9pm. They're expecting it around that time and the schedule is setup to have staff/equipment/gates that can support a wide body arriving in that time frame. It arrived an hour late or so which would put it in the middle of another arrival/departure block. The gate they wanted to use for it might not be available at that time since it wasn't scheduled to arrive then, the staff they would normally use for the 9pm arrival might be dealing with a 10pm arrival and they need to wait for staff to finish with that other arrival, etc. There are lots of moving pieces that need to come together, even with all the same day advanced planning notice you might have, you can't create extra space if that's what you need. Given the flight in question landed at about 10:10pm and didn't block in till close to 10:35pm, there was probably a gate availability issue accommodating an extra widebody at that time. .

Which builds into the next point about holding flights for connections, that decision can cascade quickly and gate agents/supervisors aren't generally in the position to evaluate all the downline effects which is why they will generally defer to the connection saver recommendation, station operations or the NOC. Those effects can be beyond even the specific departing flight being considered for a hold, what if there is another widebody waiting to go into that gate that would now be delayed further since that gate is being occupied longer? Or that ground crew since they're waiting to depart can't get their next flight loaded/departed on time, etc? It's not hard to see how to imagine how that can quickly cascade to affecting far more than a single flight and set of passengers.

Originally Posted by ZenFlyer
per the OP's account they were in fact treated quite callously by the first UA rep with whom they had direct contact on the ground at SFO, namely the gate agent for the onward flight. If the reason was crew time-out, for example, why didn't the GA just say so? Or if the real issue was that "no instructions were received" why wasn't that news delivered along with an apology for the miscommunication on behalf of UA? Neither of these gestures would have changed the outcome in this situation but I submit that they would have likely changed the subjective passenger experience of the missed connection ....
If we ignore the fact that these types of posts often get exaggerated even unintentionally from OP's own distaste over the situation, and assume that everything reported as being said was verbatim, there are still multiple issues. First the assertion on the plane that connections were being held is very easy to be misinterpreted and ignoring the fact in these situations we have a tendency to hear what we want to hear if it is even tangentially closed. That may be true for some connections, but as far as I can tell nothing was specifically said that the SFO-EWR was being held, and that statement may have been true for other customers since presumably a plane of 300 passengers has people going to multiple different connections. And it seems like a later statement was made that they know about your connections, which is absolutely true as has been shown by another poster, the gate agent has access to see every incoming connection to their flight. For reference, if UA does decide to hold a flight for connections, they send out text message notifications to the affected passengers letting them know along with directions between the gates, estimated walking time, etc.

In terms of the gate agent being blunt, sure it could have been handled better, but I also try to put myself in their shoes to see how many times per day do they have passengers who barely misconnect asking for a one time exception to reopen the door, etc. Maybe being blunt is the best way to quickly communicate to the passenger that the flight has closed and they need to go to rebooking, it shuts down any argument over the issue and lets the gate agent get back to their work, even if it isn't the most polite way to put it . Which just because the door has closed doesn't mean the gate agent is done working the flight. There is still close out paperwork they need to do so final weights, manifests etc can be transmitted, which I believe the expectation at UA is that is completed within 6 minutes of door closure. I think all the hubs are equipped for this to be done from the jet bridge, and I'd think many gate agents would have just done it there to avoid precisely this situation. But clearly they decided to do it at the gate podium instead so the misconnecting passengers at least met someone at the gate even if the message they received was communicated in a subpar manner, as opposed to finding an empty gate (and actually being "abandoned"). As to not giving a reason, as mentioned previously, they might not know the reason, they aren't given all the information that goes into a decision to hold for a connection or not, just that they are authorized to wait until a certain time to close the door if a hold is approved.

FWIW, the gate agent in this situation did know about the people coming from the KOA-SFO flight, and even asked if there was any ability to wait for the connecting passengers coming from [gate] F11. Of course based on the account here we would assume the gate agent was indifferent to the OP's plight. Unfortunately misconnects happen, airports and airlines are gigantic logistic puzzles with way more moving pieces then we can see, and holding flights which UA does try to do when able isn't always possible.
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Old Mar 28, 2023, 3:06 am
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Abandoned seems a tiny bit hyperbolic here.
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Old Mar 28, 2023, 4:41 am
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I was on that flight two weeks ago and a similar thing happened. It arrived an hour late into KOA and left an hour late. Arrived in SFO and they tried to get people with tight connections off first. Luckily, our next flight was next morning. Unfortunately, a storm that passed through earlier that led to the delays, knocked out power to our hotel. The hotel did abandon us as they loaded us on the shuttle and sent us back to the airport.
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Old Mar 28, 2023, 6:31 am
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Pleasantries from a captain with no control of any other flight aside, if you're not at the gate 15 minutes before posted departure, you've missed the flight, regardless of any circumstance that leads to the aircraft sitting at the gate for a few minutes after door close. UA actually has some industry leading tech in ConnectionSaver to systemically consider holding flights for connecting pax, so it's not being done on an ad hoc basis. Proactive rebooking certainly isn't an industry-wide practice (some major airlines don't even have the tech for it), but UA has the best capabilities for self service in the mobile app of any airline I've ever misconnected on.

Wow, I really sound like a UA apologist, maybe it was the hyperbolic tone of OP that got me going. Fault UA for where they're actually bad (cleaning, catering, etc), not for sort of normal travel stuff.

We flew UA to/from KOA during the various west coast storms this month with no drama, other than the underwhelming facilities at KOA.
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