Magnum9

**I’m not a regular UA flyer so please excuse my ignorance**

Just flew BOS-LHR in Polaris and saw on EF seat 1A was blocked and inquired at check-in if I could switch. Agent said it could only be done at the gate. Politely asked Gate Agent if I could be reassigned 1A and she said that seat is reserved as a pilot crew rest seat. Shortly thereafter 3 Pilots boarded our flight.

Curious why UA uses 3 Pilots on a 76W for a 6-hour TATL *and* blocks a seat for them in J as a crew rest? So each pilot only has to fly 2-hours?

Do they do this so that set of Pilots can turn around and operate a return LHR-EWR/BOS/IAD so they don’t have to overnight them in London?

What am I missing?

clubord

You’re missing the fact it is 8+ hours block on the way from Europe back to the US. If augmented on one leg, it must be for both.

763 has 1A as designated crew rest seat with the curtain built into the closet to comply with the FAA rest certifications.

757FO

Correct. You don't want your pilots tired, do you?

ani90

Doesn't necessarily follow.

mduell

Their contract entitles them to it; they may not be returning LHR-BOS.

On a flight they're not needed on, and ahead of a scheduled rest?

Magnum9

The FAA piece I was missing. Thank you.

8+ hours blocked on LHR-BOS? We’re in Winter when headwinds are strongest and that flight isn’t even close to 8-hours let alone 8+:

UA25 LHR-BOS 7h 5m https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL25

I fully support Pilot’s needing proper rest, but these short BOS-LHR-BOS TATL hops don’t even touch 8-hours.

BOS-SFO can be just as long in winter as LHR-BOS. Does UA block a J seat and put a 3rd pilot on those flights?

clubord

I tried to keep it simple here, but there is much more that goes into this than just the block times.

I have not flown on the 756 in over a year so I don’t know how the BOS pairings are currently being built. Considering there is no BOS Pilot base, I’d guess the pairing is designed as a 6 day trip called a “W” ex: IAD-LHR-BOS-LHR-IAD.

Part 117, JCBA , WOCLs, all factor into the decision to augment a flight.

Having a third pilot allows flexibility and increased duty times because the pilots are not going to be in Europe long enough to become acclimated.

KabAir

This evening’s LHR-BOS is blocked at 7:40, and this evening’s BOS-SFO is blocked at 6:54. So not quite the same.

But a couple of other points you may be missing. First, going to the UK is a 5 time zone change each way vs 3 going across the US. It’s also a red-eye on the outbound, meaning that for the crews coming back on that 7:40 blocked flight, they’ve been through an overnight flight with 5 time zone change in the “wrong direction”, followed by jet lag and then turning around in 24-36 hours and flying back across 5 time zones again. That is a killer, and I would not want 2 person flight crews that didn’t get rest going both directions. Second, there’s going to be a little more leeway with a 3 person crew that has built in rest time than with a 2 person crew should the flight end up being longer due to bad winds on a particular day, or needed a fuel stop or whatever. In some cases could probably be the difference between the flight going out or not.

Sorry you didn’t get your #1 preferred seat. But this isn’t even all up to United, some of it is FAA regs, and honestly it’s kind of first world problems. (Not that it’s wrong to ask about it). Hope this helps.

JimInOhio

Using FlightAware, UA 25 (LHR- BOS) has ranged from 6 hours 46 minutes to 8 hours 35 minutes.

EWR764

Unaugumented all-nighters to Europe don't scare me, necessarily, but there is no question they carry slightly more risk than flights in which pilots get a rest period (however brief) and a third set of eyes in the cockpit.

UA pilots will no doubt be familiar with the case of a flight to LHR within the last 5 years or so that came at the very end of an unaugmented redeye, and one of the reasons cited for the momentary lapse in spatial/situational awareness was the two-man crew's fatigue and increased workload on a bad weather day at LHR, coupled with the ordinary crowded airspace, vectoring, holding, etc. Pax never knew the difference, but it underscores the insidious nature of fatigue and how quickly things can spiral if mental acuity is reduced as a result.

757FO

LOL, I am aware, I am a 767 captain for the airline. And they are required.

Lux Flyer

This is the internet, obviously they know better than the people actually doing the job that the policies and regulations apply to.

TomMM

But but must have 1A otherwise shenanigans!

mduell

I'm unclear what you're responding to. Augmented crew isn't required by any regulation for a 6.5h flight. But it is required by the union contract, and the extra crew may be required for the return, depending on what route it is.

Raymoland

long taxi out or deice and the flight is canceled if no augmented crew.

and 8 hours uninterrupted with no break even for lunch is a bit fatiguing. But definitely ets 100% undermine safety so OP can have his preferred seat.....