Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

AA to drop Mesa, Mesa to offer its CRJ900s to UA

AA to drop Mesa, Mesa to offer its CRJ900s to UA

Old Dec 18, 22, 1:12 am
  #1  
Moderator: United Airlines; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.85MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 62,260
AA to drop Mesa, Mesa to offer its CRJ900s to UA

American Airlines is dropping regional carrier Mesa
American Airlines’ CFO said the final Mesa flight will be on April 3.
The UA angle
Now, Arizona-based Mesa is planning to transition “all of our CRJ900 flying to United Airlines
,” a carrier it already flies for, Mesa’s CEO Jonathan Ornstein said in a note to staff on Saturday, which was seen by CNBC.
Scope clause issue? as presently configured these are 76-seaters
SPN Lifer and goodeats21 like this.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Dec 18, 22 at 1:21 am Reason: date
WineCountryUA is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 6:19 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Plat Premier (+AMB); Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 9,234
Originally Posted by WineCountryUA View Post
American Airlines is dropping regional carrier Mesa


The UA angle


Scope clause issue? as presently configured these are 76-seaters
Interesting. I have flown on the AA CR9s. Nice ride. Would love to see them replace the outgoing CR2s, but yeah, unless something has changed with scope clause, not sure how they are going to do this.
WVmike likes this.
goodeats21 is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 8:57 am
  #3  
Used to be MBS PremExec
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Saginaw, MI (MBS)
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM, Marriott Titanium w/Lifetime Plat, Hilton LIfetime ♢, National Exec, Amex Plat
Posts: 5,701
This is amazing news, as they’re basically trading Air Wisconsin’s CR2s for Mesa’s CR9s! Selfishly hoping for an ORD base, which would make sense given the number of ZW’s airframes leaving ORD.

Haven't flown the Mesa version, but have flown various DL carriers’ versions over time in F and Y, and it was always a nice experience.
WVmike and atword like this.
MBS MillionMiler is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 9:03 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,637
Originally Posted by MBS MillionMiler View Post
This is amazing news, as theyre basically trading Air Wisconsins CR2s for Mesas CR9s! Selfishly hoping for an ORD base, which would make sense given the number of ZWs airframes leaving ORD.

Haven't flown the Mesa version, but have flown various DL carriers versions over time in F and Y, and it was always a nice experience.
Not that simple. AIr Wisconsin's CR2 falls under the 50 seat portion of scope clause, whereas the CR9s are going to fall into the 76 seater limitations. Not looking at UAX's fleet arrangements, not sure they have enough room to add the CR9's under scope clause. Of course not sure why'd they'd be in discussion if they don't have a way to work this in, so there is that positive.
lincolnjkc and WVmike like this.
Lux Flyer is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 9:52 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Houston, TX
Programs: UA silver, Bonvoy gold
Posts: 1,490
do these plans have ovens?

Would allow for hot meals at least
WVmike likes this.
Unitedloyalflyer is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 10:04 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 8,910
I worry the SkyWest 175s might be going off the United contract to be replaced by the CR9s.

IMO that would be a net negative for passenger experience.
EWR764 is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 11:10 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 7,646
Originally Posted by WineCountryUA View Post
Scope clause issue? as presently configured these are 76-seaters
The number of greater-than-50-seat aircraft in the UX is already at the maximum limit. These CRJ-900s could not be added unless other existing 70 or 76 seat aircraft are removed or they are flown by UAL pilots (which seems very unlikely).

The current 76-seat fleet is made up of E-175s. The current 70-seat fleet is made of of both CRJ-700s and E-170s. The Mesa airplanes could replace the CRJ-700s in a 70-seat configuration freeing those CRJ-700 for conversion to CRJ-550s but I think Mesa has more CRJ-900s than UX has remaining CRJ-700s.

It doesn't make sense to replace E-170/175 aircraft with the CRJ-900.
jsloan, SPN Lifer and lincolnjkc like this.
LarryJ is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 11:35 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: AAdvantage, Rapid Rewards, Hilton Honors
Posts: 77
Originally Posted by goodeats21 View Post
Interesting. I have flown on the AA CR9s. Nice ride. Would love to see them replace the outgoing CR2s, but yeah, unless something has changed with scope clause, not sure how they are going to do this.
I have been stuck on the Mesa CRJ9s too many times on SDF to DFW. These birds are not in good shape on the interior or mechanically. After getting several unscheduled overnights at DFW, I would not be excited about these moving to United. However, I guess they could still be an improvement over Air Wisky.
FriendlySkies and becks1 like this.
LBBflyer is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 11:41 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SFO, DAY
Programs: UA 1K MM, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 4,741
Arent loads of E175s and CRJ550s parked due to lack of pilots? Could Mesa just be offering up the people? Or can the CR9s replace some parked E175s (no idea how the contract is structured and what counts as currently flying or if they have to some to do some formal exit process for those E175s for them not to count against the contract)?
JAaronT is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 11:46 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: EWR
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 254
Someone told me that there were rumors of the E170s going to American Eagle. If that were the case, the CRJ900 would probably be outfitted with 70 seats a replacement. Also, I think Mesa has grounded some E175s, which could be operated by another carrier (CommuteAir has added the type). If that were the case, it would all make sense!

I feel like a spruced up CRJ-900 would be nicer than the E170, especially if it operated with 70 seats. I imagine we would have 10 or 12 F seats which is better than 6!

Time will tell.
WVmike likes this.
Micp3208 is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 12:15 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Plat Premier (+AMB); Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 9,234
Originally Posted by LBBflyer View Post
I have been stuck on the Mesa CRJ9s too many times on SDF to DFW. These birds are not in good shape on the interior or mechanically. After getting several unscheduled overnights at DFW, I would not be excited about these moving to United. However, I guess they could still be an improvement over Air Wisky.
The article in the original post references some info that Mesa was being financially penalized by AA for failure to meet some obligations established Pre-Covid. If they are moving to a new agreement with United, I would hope they would now have the financial resources to address the condition of frames / reliability.

As some of the previous posters have mentioned, I think there is more shuffling that will be occurring in all this. Scope clause has to be maintained, so it isn't just a simple add of all these 70+ seat frames. Other stuff has to happen.

Any thing that happens to reduce the CR2s seems to be a good thing.
goodeats21 is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 12:58 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SFO, DAY
Programs: UA 1K MM, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 4,741
Originally Posted by Micp3208 View Post
I feel like a spruced up CRJ-900 would be nicer than the E170, especially if it operated with 70 seats. I imagine we would have 10 or 12 F seats which is better than 6!

Time will tell.
They should just go for it and make a CRJ555 with 21F/29Y
JAaronT is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 1:36 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CLE, DCA, and 30k feet
Programs: Honors LT Diamond; United 1K; Hertz PC
Posts: 3,520
Originally Posted by Micp3208 View Post
Someone told me that there were rumors of the E170s going to American Eagle. If that were the case, the CRJ900 would probably be outfitted with 70 seats a replacement. Also, I think Mesa has grounded some E175s, which could be operated by another carrier (CommuteAir has added the type). If that were the case, it would all make sense!

I feel like a spruced up CRJ-900 would be nicer than the E170, especially if it operated with 70 seats. I imagine we would have 10 or 12 F seats which is better than 6!

Time will tell.
Under the current scope restrictions UA can't have a net add of any 76 seat aircraft... it doesn't matter who is operating them (e.g. CommutAir operating Mesa-owned E175s doesn't solve a problem -- it would just mean that Mesa could operate fewer E175s for UA directly. I could see a CRJ-500-style move however I believe the scope also has MTOW limits which may require actually recertifying the frame as a new type rather than just removing seats (e.g. the CRJ-550 even though they started live as a CRJ-700 are legally CRJ-550s and despite the same engines, wings, etc., are legally limited to a lower weight to avoid running afoul of the scope clause.

Long term I really think UA needs to consider bringing a NSNB inhouse with UA pilots to ameliorate scope and also better their own FO/captain flow, as well as more consistency in operation, but there are some significant cost premiums involved in that so I don't expect it to happen any time soon unless the unions would agree to something like the "B" scales of the 1980s for new crews on property operating the NSNB
lincolnjkc is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 1:37 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: AAdvantage, Rapid Rewards, Hilton Honors
Posts: 77
Originally Posted by goodeats21 View Post
The article in the original post references some info that Mesa was being financially penalized by AA for failure to meet some obligations established Pre-Covid. If they are moving to a new agreement with United, I would hope they would now have the financial resources to address the condition of frames / reliability.

As some of the previous posters have mentioned, I think there is more shuffling that will be occurring in all this. Scope clause has to be maintained, so it isn't just a simple add of all these 70+ seat frames. Other stuff has to happen.

Any thing that happens to reduce the CR2s seems to be a good thing.
All of the -900s could use some investment if they are going to keep them in the air. 2018-2019 were truly terrible times for Mesa's AA ops as they were running with basically no slack in the fleet. Currently they have several -900s in storage as they don't have the pilots to fly them. Hopefully they are using the downtime for repairs, but they may not have the cash. I flew one -900 back in 2019 that had 4 Y seats and 2 F seats inop, as well as my F seat window shade that was stuck down.

They do at least have 12F seats and power. I don't think any of them have wifi, or at least that works reliably.
LBBflyer is offline  
Old Dec 18, 22, 2:09 pm
  #15  
Moderator: United Airlines; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.85MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 62,260
Originally Posted by LBBflyer View Post
... I don't think any of them have wifi, or at least that works reliably.
The AA CRJ900 used GoGo, like the rest of UA's UX
WineCountryUA is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread