frappant

funny thing is I can’t find that cancellation email any more.

UA agent didn’t confirm anything.

unless I could get AC to uncheck me, he said he couldn’t put me on the UA flight.

if they were right to cancel the whole booking, how was I able to board the YVR-BNE flight and why wasn’t any of my miles returned for that no show.

I don’t get the selective cancellation of flights on the booking or the non return of miles either.

I presume UA recognized that they still had all the miles from the redemption so they booked me in biz on their flight.

The caNcellation was back on Nov 5 — the Departure date was Nov 4.

jsloan

It’s not “because of circumstances that [you] had nothing to do with.” You tried to fix a problem that didn’t exist, and, in doing so, messed up the entire remainder of your ticket. (I’m frankly rather surprised that AC boarded you on YVR/BNE; they must not have received the cancellation in time).

UA isn’t going to reimburse you for your hotel costs. It sounds like you got them to reinstate the remainder of your reservation and got you home at no additional charge, which was beyond what they were required to do.

And, for the peanut gallery — there’s no need to bloviate about consumer protection laws — they don’t apply to voluntary changes. (If they did, of course, the predictable response would be that airlines would be unwilling to make any changes even when they really are necessary).

frappant

Uh it turned out the problem didn't exist because I hustled to make the connecting flight.

Like I said, the first flight was at the gate 20 minutes before departure of the next flight.

I ran through the terminal, going upstairs to where they had an automated passport check. There were 3 people there.

If I didn't move as fast or if the passport checkpoint was crowded at that time, I don't make the connecting flight, simple as that.

There are no voluntary changes here. They did not offer me an option for the ticket I redeemed, business class on a very long flight, until two days later.

WineCountryUA

The no show cancellation isn't instantaneous -- it occurs later.

Since you did use part of the ticket, YVR-BNE, there are no miles to. Yes a bit of a catch-22 but the systems were not built for this situation.

jsloan

Well, right. As would any of us have. The point is, if you had done nothing, you’d have made your flight and you’d have made your return flight.

You called UA and tried to change your original outbound flight. Everything that happened after that was a direct result of that phone call.

frappant

But by the time the cancellation occurred, according to the AC agent it was on Nov 5, I had boarded both AC flights.

So why is it automatically canceled but it ignores the fact that I boarded both AC flights?

As for using part of the ticket, the 1K agent, when I pointed out how much I redeemed when she proposed my taking the economy seat for BNE-YVR, said that yes, it was 99k for the outbound and 90k for the return.

So there was some kind of separate pricing of the outbound and return. Yet they didn't return any miles.

jsloan

AC’s system didn’t get the memo in time. Count yourself very lucky.

UA does not allow you to convert a round-trip award to a one-way award after departure. Therefore, no refund was due if you’d decided not to take your rebooked flights.

ETA: If they’d been canceled unused, you could have redeposited the entire amount for a $125 no-show fee. However, since you did use them, you weren’t going to get a refund. If you had returned in Y, they’d have given you a refund of the difference between J and Y on that segment, however.

frappant

Because an AC agent told me that I didn't have enough time to connect and that if I don't make it it's my problem. They may not reschedule me on another YVR-BNE flight, which also doesn't run every day so it may not have been available for another day or two.

She said if I risked taking the AC flight and didn't make it, AC wasn't going to be responsible.

Here is my post on Nov 4th.

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/34733401-post261.html

The AC agent at SFO told me something different that I should have 45 minutes and that it should be enough. Turned out I had 20 minutes and the YVR-BNE flight departed about 10-15 minutes after scheduled departure.

Certainly UA didn't say I would be able to make the connection. They didn't have any space on flights to BNE or SYD that day so they proposed their earlier flight for SFO-YVR to have a better chance to make the connection.


This is utter nonsense. UA 1K desk didn't tell me take the economy flight, take it or leave it.

She told me I could choose the economy flight and then contact Customer Care afterwards to see about compensation.

Or I could take business ticket 2 days later and then again contact Customer Care.

She didn't promise that I'd get some kind of compensation in EITHER case. So I chose what I thought was the least bad option, because I'd have to contact CC either way.

Who here would have accepted the "rebooked flights" as you call it, which is a downgrade from business to coach on a 12-13 hour flight?

On this site of all places?

WineCountryUA

That and the MCT comment are just flat out wrong.
While understanding your relied on that information, the agent gave you bad information

If AC creates an irrop due to a delayed flight, they are responsible for getting you to your scheduled destination.

"You break it, you fixed it" are the rules for airlines on day of travel.

frappant

Well I don't know the AC rules.

But I had no way of knowing that it's bad information. I did Google for MCT at YVR and it looked like an hour.

But I had to rely on what she said was AC policy.

O62

I don't get FT sometimes. If you all had a positioning flight to a long-haul transpacific flight that might get delayed you would all encourage people to proactive and find a solution. In this, the OP tried to be proactive, AC couldn't be reacbed, UA did their best to help, and ultimately screwed up the reservation. As OP says, there was no way to know they actually altered the ticket without any sort of notification. OP boarded all of the outbound flights and arrived to the destination without a hint that the returns would be affected. So, as far as OP knows, everything with the reservation is fine. I'm not sure what sort of magic we expect flyers to know when dealing with such opaque and arcane systems. Seems like UA needs to own up to screwing up the reservation and cancelling it with no reason. The fact that is a reward flight shouldn't mater but alas, we somehow all accept that award flights get second class service when things go wrong.

Lux Flyer

Sounds like your issue is with Air Canada then.

Because airlines don't care what you did take, but rather what you didn't take. As posted above, rule 5 of the contract of carriage only cares about what flights you had space held for you on and didn't take. When that situation exists, the rest of the PNR gets cancelled. This is, among other reasons (tying up inventory), why it is increasingly difficult to get an agent to "protect you" on a different flight in IRROPs and why UA has basically prohibited their agents from engaging in that practice any longer. Because if one of those flights ends up getting left in the PNR unused, it will become a no show and cancel all the remaining space out.

I had a flight with one of my parents to the UK on BA a couple years ago. It was a running connection in LHR and we were the last to board and they closed the gate immediately after scanning our boarding passes. They didn't expect us to make it and had space held for us on the flight leaving an hour later. The next morning one of us had no return flights in our PNR. It was a 5 minute text conversation with BA to get it restored. But BA wasn't going to do that if it was never brought to their attention, and it would have been a lot harder had I waited until the airport and the space was no longer available. You need to be your own advocate which means dealing with things as soon as they come up, not putting them off.

This is a refrain I have to repeat all the time here. Making airfare more accessible to the end consumer did not change the airlines historical practice with regards to agency. UA is not your travel agent, you are. No one is babysitting your PNR once you're off the phone. You as the traveler, or your agent, are responsible for what you have requested to have reserved. Both the app and united.com always reflect the most current set of flights in the UA PNR. And the UA SFO-YVR flight would have been showing there, even if you didn't receive a separate confirmation (and wouldn't have because it wasn't ticketed). Again, a reservation and ticket are two separate components.

People's responses here aren't so much about being proactive, but leaving things unfinished. OP started working with UA, was told space was being held, and just never followed up after they made the Air Canada flight. And when they were notified there was an issue ("your reservation has been cancelled"), instead of being proactive and trying to figure out more they ignored it until they got to the airport for a return.

Not sure what you're reading, but OP was notified that an issue had occurred once the return was cancelled. Beyond that, the PNR reflects the most current set of flights UA has reserved for the passenger, and the UA SFO-YVR flight would have been showing in there even if it wasn't ticketed.

UA did, they rebooked OP on the next available option on their own metal. Which is more than they're required to do. The only thing I'm taking away from this, is that UA should just not try and help their passengers when an OA encounters IRROPs, which an increasing number of agents seem to be doing.

frappant

I don't ever recollect UA telling me that they're holding space for me or words to that effect.

What they emphasized to me was that they can't do anything for me until AC took some action on their system.

I couldn't reach AC in time before I had to be at the airport and by the time I reached the airport and reached the AC desk, there was no other choice then to board the AC flight.

I don't know where this Rule 5 would be. I booked the award online. Maybe I clicked accept on some terms or verbiage. I should have read it probably but I booked it 9 months ago, when I had no reason to believe that I'd have to scramble to make the flights, because I've never had this kind of delay -- less than an hour to make an international flight -- on any award or purchased ticket.


I saw a email that something was canceled in the subject line. This was as I was arriving in Australia. I can't find the email again.

I figured it was about the alternate flight.

Had no reason whatsoever to think they'd cancel other flights, which were over 2 weeks out.

Even if I contacted UA 2 weeks before my return flights, would they have been able to put me back on the AC flight? Who's to say, the award was booked in February. I doubt there was any more award space available at the price I had paid.

My guess is if I contacted UA, they'd have told me, sorry we canceled but now we have to reprice and there are no more Saver awards available on the AC flight so you need to come up with more miles. Remember, at the time of the outbound flights, it was already 9 months since the booking.

So whether I went to UA back around Nov 5 or Nov 23, the story might have been the same, either no award space for UA MP members or I'd have to pay the difference between a Saver and Non-Saver rate.

Lux Flyer

You stated this in an earlier post
Rule 5 is in the contract of carriage, which you agree to anytime you purchase a ticket on United (or any airline for that matter).

This doesn't make sense in context of your previous response. Why would you be expecting a cancellation of an alternate flight if you simultaneously didn't believe they "confirmed" anything for you?

Maybe, there's potential A/C has your space available still. At 2 weeks out there is also time for them work with Air Canada to see about fixing the reservation. And if they can't, there is a lot more availability on alternative flights that UA can put you on, certainly more than trying to deal with it the day of departure at the airport. But the fact is you didn't contact them, so you gave them no opportunity to fix things.

Now you're again, as others have pointed out to your other responses, getting into major hypotheticals that we don't know the answer to because you never contacted UA. But I will say all of your hypothetical responses are not-consistent at all with how UA corrects mistakes. If they can get the space from air canada they can and do honor the original fares, and if they can't, they can honor the original fares on their own metal. But again, their flexibility to work things out is significantly constrained when you wait until the day of travel. Availability at 2 weeks out is infinitely better than availability on the day of travel when your up against the departure time of a flight to.

jsloan

No, it isn’t nonsense. For a voluntary change, no refund would have been due if you’d elected not to use the return. Your options were to accept the downgrade to Y, in which case a miles difference would have been due, wait for J, or abandon the ticket.

The agent who suggested that you follow up with Customer Care after the fact either didn’t understand the actual issue or just wanted to get you off of the phone.

As for your original flight — if it met MCT at the most recent schedule change, it would have been AC’s responsibility to get you to your final destination. If it didn’t, AC never should have let you board. Whether or not the flight showed a delay on the day of travel that made the actual connection time less than MCT Is irrelevant — that’s part of what MCT Is designed to do, is account for the possibility of a delay. It’s only relevant what was on the most recent schedule prior to the day of departure.