WineCountryUA

It isn't just capacity, one flight a day each to two cities is never going to be successful. I'm sure UA knew that from the start but have not been successful getting more slots -- 4 or 5 flights to SFO and the same to LAX is the min it will take to offer viable alternative to competitors.

sfozrhfco

Their temporary slots expire next month so the only capacity that they can add after next month would be bus service to Newark. They could even offer articulated buses for additional capacity

DMPHL

Agreed. There isn't going to be much extra capacity at JFK over the next 10 years, especially with terminals being demolished, closed and reopened in phases, and new terminals being constructed. And that's just on the ground. They also can't just create new approach and departure paths for planes without considering EWR and LGA flight paths, and noise pollution ordinances.

On the equipment front, it seems like the lack of frequency means that having a premium-heavy aircraft isn't viable. I also think there are operational issues, at least with 767s, as they don't have a maintenance base at LAX or SFO for that type, and if flying between JFK and LAX/SFO, those aircraft don't have any way to make it into a broader aircraft rotation (without causing other operational issues). The 777s and 787s may just be too much capacity. Maybe when the 737 MAX-10s come online with rumored flat beds, they will be a more viable option.

PTahCha

This is from the DOJ's suit to block the sale:

https://www.justice.gov/atr/case-doc...92471/download

In general, when people fly to New York City, they think JFK, not Newark, regardless of how UA brands the airport..

Xyzzy

I respectfully disagree. Depending n where they are going and where they've been in NYC they could think of JFK, LGA or EWR.

Adelphos

I think much of the reputation of EWR relative to LGA/JFK has to come from peoples' perception of the airport itself rather than what state the airport is in, or how long it takes to get to the airport.

I know many NYC residents, most of whom who live on the westside, that swear by United and EWR because it is often easier to get to than JFK. JFK is terrible to get to, especially between 4 PM and 7 PM on a weekday and traveling by car (though I think it is actually decently easy to get to JFK during this time period via the E or A subway lines). However, most people view EWR as having bad food/drink/lounge options, being old/crowded, etc. I haven't been to EWR recently and seen any of the renovations, and I don't know if the reputations were ever based in reality, but people think the airport itself is a bit of a dump versus JFK/LGA. From what I can tell, all three NYC airports have seen huge upgrades recently, so this perception may be outdated.

zzzliner

As a former SF resident and current Manhattan resident I would say it's more of the psychological factors around flying into/out of the same city as opposed to crossing state lines (even if EWR might might closer than JFK). It doesn't hurt that the taxi fare from JFK into Manhattan is pretty predictable and it's easy enough to grab a cab.

To be honest, since I live in the Lower East Side, I'd much rather fly out of JFK than EWR. I've had enough Holland Tunnel derived anxiety and frustration on both ends to last a lifetime.

WineCountryUA

It really isn't that simple as posted earlier
Perhaps more so international but JFK is #3 for domestic, LGA#2 and EWR #1

And a lot dependents of where you starting from / going to.

prestonh

It's interesting to me that ual wants space at jfk. Perhaps one of the reasons that is sold out is ual is overwhelming in ewr. They might be a victim of their own circumstance to some extent. Maybe time to do some swapping if they don't want to pay up.

JimInOhio

Don't those rankings include all connecting traffic which would automatically boost EWR's standing? The best metric is share of O/D market, if anyone has it.

dtwtransport

Is it safe to assume the Aeroflot slots will definitely go un-utilized (by Aeroflot) due to the current Ukraine war sanctions? What happens to those slot assets?

Adelphos

I was swatted down earlier with my focus on LGA, but I think it is important to discuss here

LGA is located in the middle of the five boroughs geographically and is the easiest to get to by car. It’s obvious JFK would be #3 for domestic, because LGA exists

i think United would be even stronger at EWR if it did more business at LGA

jsloan

Plenty of people connect at JFK also. (LGA, less so, but it's still possible on some carriers).

The thread title is really misleading here, and I feel like that's been coloring the discussion. People have correctly pointed out that it's less of a threat than it is an acknowledgement that they're on borrowed time since they haven't been able to get a permanent slot allocation.

LGA is 11 miles from JFK. There's not even a bridge between them.

By contrast, LGB is 19 miles from SNA, but I don't remember anybody saying UA desperately needs to reintroduce service at Long Beach.

bocastephen

I think the DOT should look at leasing out, at a substantial fee, a few slots at LaGuardia that are exempt from the perimeter rule until JFK construction upgrades are complete and new capacity can be evaluated.

Since part of the issue is airspace management, any airline bidding on the LGA slots would need to remove one or more similar flights from their EWR or JFK schedule in order to gain access to the LGA slots.

Repooc17

Also fastest by public transport to/from most areas of NYC.