cfischer

they had Corton Charlemagne on board

IAH-OIL-TRASH

That was one of the problems I mentioned earlier, and it was a problem at both UA and CO (before the merger). CO had pretty good wine selections (IMHO), but towards the end it was harder and harder to find wines onboard that matched the menus.

Winkdaddy

Is UA really struggling that hard where extreme F&B cuts are that necessary? Is it really that difficult to cuts deals with a few decent wineries and print menus? Is spending $100ish cost on food/wine per business passenger really that big of a deal when Business class is thousands of dollars?? I don't work for a large public company but its mind boggling the way they operate with such "cheapness". Maybe some VP is incentivized to cut costs so he gets some sort of bonus rather then incentivized to SPEND more on a great soft product to attract more customers...and maybe get some of those good blogger reviews?! That's the depressing part.

featheroleather

Kriby & Parker are products of AmWest no frills mentality.

bmwe92fan

IMHO -- UA is living off of the hype that was created when Polaris launched pre-COVID -- and as more and more travelers experience the new/real reality of what is graciously described as "Fauxlaris" - I believe UA is going to have to come to grips with the fact that soft product is still relevant and important - especially as other competitors have matched / exceeded UA's hard product..... UA get's about a third of my spend per year -- their hard product is falling behind and their soft product is a joke -- I fly NH all the time now and their hard product now is IMO vastly superior (the NY-TYO routes use "The Room") -- and soft product -- well, UA should be embarrassed....

fumje

The problem is, they're not!

bmwe92fan

Which is why I left AA -- welcome to Kirbyland -- where shareholders are satisfied (somewhat) for the short term -- and customers are truly unhappy for the long term! I get it -- I run a public company -- but there needs to be balance -- that is what is missing in Kirbyland...

WineCountryUA

a couple items to consider

Would the PL costs for these passengers (vs UC costs) be a part of that number?

The costs need to include the cost of the entire supply -- not just the cost of the raw materials.

@ $100 per passenger for a 1 year is $1.5M - 2M per flight. UA has 200 WBs in service. Guessmate 125-150 are used for Polaris and a some get more then 1 trip per 24 hours,
So you are talking about $300M, maybe $400M

That is in the same ballpark as the net income for UA in 2022 Q2 (the first profit in 8 quarters)

So not an inconsequential expense. When running such tight margins.

Would I like better food, sure, got a couple of Polaris trips coming up. But I also want employees well compensated, nice lounges, plentiful free E+ when not up front, best in class website, and a variety of other benefits. And overall UA is out preforming operationally its competitors. Each carroer allocates its scarce resource ($$$) in different ways.

bmwe92fan

I think your math is off -- $100 per person, per flight is about $5,000 per flight -- no way an upgrade in food / wine costs that much or every other premium airline in the world would be out of business -- you are off by at least a factor of 10... I work in the airline business -- the cost of a meal / wine per flight is way less than you think -- and way less than $100 per pax. Given the margins of late is the cost "significant" - yes. Is it anywhere near your projection - no.... Adding five bottles of Moet Chandon per flight costs $50 -- that's what SQ pays -- just for reference....

The dishes and glasses they serve us -- cost on average about $0.60 per piece -- and are used on average 10 weeks before they break. The cost per flight is barely pennies. The food only costs slightly more -- the truth is the average cost to serve a meal per passenger in J is less than $5.00 -- I'm guessing UA spends half that.... As a supplier to BA, SQ, NH, EK, and DL I'm fairly certain of the math -- which is why I'm so negative about UA....

IAH-OIL-TRASH

times the number of times that flight operates per year

bmwe92fan

Please read the rest of my post - if UA spent just $500 more per flight you would easily have original Polaris back.... But $500 per flight X # of international flights X 365 -- it's not inconsequential -- its just business in Kirbyland....

Do you all remember making fun of Smisek for using broken nuts instead of whole nuts to save money? He was roasted here for that

WineCountryUA

correct

that would be ≈ $10 per passenger, the high end champers would eat that easily alone. And that would be ≈ $40M/ annually

And I was responding to the poster that want $100 per passenger.

Note: not saying UA should not get back to the original plan but short of improved profitability or cuts elsewhere that is a problem. Believe many are underappreciating the expense.

bmwe92fan

Ugh - Sorry I grabbed the wrong post.... But just to give context -- if only one passenger would choose just to fly UA for soft product per route three or four times a month -- it pays for itself doesn't it......

MMProfessor

[/size]

Yes, I remember Dom on UA First also.

WineCountryUA

Depends on the revenue delta of the replacement customer, that's the risk UA needs to manage.