HkCaGu

How AC does HKG: Midnight departure from YYZ/YVR, pre-dawn ICN crew change, mid-morning HKG turn around, afternoon ICN crew change, daytime YYZ/YVR arrival.

GUM consideration:
Westbound: Pax from SFO cannot get off the plane, or their PCR (48-h countdown) are invalidated.
Eastbound: USCBP needs to sign off on something. Crew changes for incoming intl flights while pax remain seated have been done in US airports due to crew hour limits. Basically USCBP officer comes to the bridge and verify each crew member as they get off or on the aircraft.

Back when UA sold HKG-GUM-HNL (and still from MNL), pax went like this:
GUM: US immigration, Guam customs, TSA, US immigration pre-clearance.
HNL: Skip immigration, bag claim, US customs, TSA.

JNelson113

This thread is reminding me of when there were daily flights to HKG from SFO, ORD, EWR, and I just had to try to calculate which one had the best chances for upgrade. I still hope that someday things will be like that again.

IMissThe747

Here's how it worked during the time that Taiwan's quarantine restrictions for flight crew were super-draconian (late 2020 or early 2021 IIRC), forcing TPE-SFO and SFO-TPE to become TPE-GUM-SFO and SFO-GUM-TPE. One crew would fly SFO-GUM. Plane makes technical stop at GUM. All passengers required to stay on board, but full crew change. New crew goes GUM-TPE. At TPE, passengers and cargo unload and new passengers and cargo board, but flight crew never leaves the plane. Because flight crew never leaves the plane, they don't have to participate in any quarantine measures. Then crew flies TPE-GUM, technical stop crew change again, and new crew back to SFO.

It did change the flight times, I don't recall exactly by how much.

Even with light (almost zero) passenger loads, UA's cargo contracts were lucrative enough they were running 871/872 daily with those technical stops in GUM, plus a non-passenger cargo-only 77W daily for a while. I imagine if the economics made sense, they would do the same in HKG.

tj96821

HKG is more practical than GUM as a final destination or connection point. HKG certainly has better connectivity to Asia than GUM, and its overall city transportation system is good. Not sure GUM "is a perfectly good hub." There is no nonstop flights to or from GUM to North America. Once GUM-HKG returns, this route (like that of MNL) will likely be served by crummy aircraft with no internet. UA's ground staff in both HKG and GUM are very good so it's a tie there. But after China's draconian Covid policies have lightened up, HKG will eventually be up and running. When that happens HKG will resume as the better airport for travel than GUM unless your origination or final destination is GUM. I say the above even though it's an admission against interest. Would love UA to designate GUM as a hub like SFO, IAH, ORD, EWR, and IAD with a Polaris lounge and nonstop flights to North America as well as expanded flights from GUM to SIN, SGN, BKK, TPE, KUL, PEK, and PVG, with Polaris seating, for example. Just don't see that happening.

Unitedloyalflyer

Why would US immigration need to be done a second time?

HkCaGu

Due to different visa regimes, admission to Guam/CNMI does not mean admission to the states. And territories other than PR are outside US customs zone. Therefore flying from a foreign point to GUM to HNL to points further requires 3 encounters with USCBP and 2 encounters with TSA. Originating from Guam only eliminates 1 USCBP encounter.

HNLbasedFlyer

With a population of 170,000 (about the size of Maui) it just isn�t feasible for GUM to be a hub

Repooc17

GUM is a hub.

https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...port/maps.html

lsquare

What's the difference between a hub and a "key airport"?

jsloan

HKG is a better choice for GUM than a hub in a vacuum. GUM is a much, much, much better choice than HKG as a hub for UA.

The reason is simple -- competition. With a hub at HKG, UA competes directly against CX and indirectly against any foreign carrier that happens to gain traffic rights (SQ); plus, if you're going to connect anyway, HKG vs TPE vs NRT vs etc. are fairly similar experiences. With a hub at GUM, UA eliminates the first set of competitors. Foreign carriers are not allowed to compete on the lucrative GUM-HNL or GUM-mainland routes (not to mention GUM-SPN . UA has an advantage at GUM that it can never get at HKG.

And, specifically because the market is too small, it's unlikely that AA or DL are going to go head-to-head vs. UA at GUM. Only HA would be a realistic threat, and I think HA would rather focus its efforts on the mainland.

The question is whether or not UA needs / wants an Asian hub at all, given its preference for long-and-thin routes nonstop from SFO and the presence of the JV hub(s) at TYO. But if they do, GUM seems to make the most sense to me.

Repooc17

Just realized, why is the thread title "Is Hong Kong Dead as a United Hub?" - when was HKG ever a hub for UA?
Non-hub airports where UA has a good size presence and/or non-hub airports strategically important to UA.

moondog

Obviously, the ability to facilitate smooth connections is arguably the most important criteria for being a hub. However, having strong O&D demand is also important. In this respect, Guam is laughable.

Just look at the former hubs in the middle of the US that existed when there were 8 network carriers, but lost hub status post consolidation. St. Louis probably has a geographical advantage to DFW, but DFW remains, presumably because the market itself is much stronger.

uastarflyer

In every respect. Same with CLE.

what has happened to HKG as a key business center is so unfortunate. But key business centers are where the focus needs to be.

moondog

While Hong Kong is obviously going through some hard times, I do not foresee descending into complete irrelevance (i.e. it is NOT like Cleveland). Furthermore, before all of this quarantine madness started, HKIA was my preferred way to get to Shenzhen. HKG is more convenient for Shekou, Futian, etc than SZX. The case for Zhuhai is less compelling, but if I wanted to visit Zhuhai from overseas, flying into HKG would make more sense than PVG, CAN, or BJS.

WineCountryUA

A couple of thoughts to add
-- UA shows no inclination to resume fifth freedom flights, so UA will be looking at O/D or connecting flights using partners
-- UA's preCOVID plan was long thin routes, covering the major manufacturing / financial centers directly. But those are not major leisure destinations.
-- UA has closed all Asian crew bases and seems very unlikely to re-open
-- American carriers will avoid become too dependent on locations with potential political issues, so not to become pawns in a game they have no standing.