Plane returned to gate twice to let people off
May 15, 2022, 3:54 pm
#31
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,277
On a VERY high level, the simplest thing connection saver needs to do is decide how long should I delay this flight to restore the MCT from the delayed inbound flight, while not breaking the MCT for any passengers on the current flight who have connections. All while making sure duty limits aren't violated, curfews are met, and most importantly the flight still arrives on time (i.e. connection saver will never recommend a departure delay that also results in an arrival time delay).
And of course a connection saver is a recommendation to the airport to delay the door closure time, not a requirement that it be followed. Essentially the program is giving the agent formal permission to take the delay and not have it count against them, instead of the agent needing to seek out that permission from HQ for the existing reasons, but if there is an operational reason (incoming weather, curfew restrictions, etc) then they can still ignore the recommendation to get the flight out.
Edit: So I searched this a little bit more, since I realized OP gave us his departing flight too. OP's flight blocked in at IAD at 1810. According to FlightAware, IAD-BCN left out of gate C6 last night, and was scheduled to depart at 1810 (actual out was 1812). Given it was an international flight, positive bag matching would have had to be done before the flight was departed, and the cabin door closed before that, so likely the connection was already closed out before OP even got off their plane. Zero chance connection saver would have come into play here, since even with a 15 minute hold to 1825 departure, on an international flight I believe they close up at D-20, so, everything would have needed to be closed out by 1805. As it is IAD-BCN arrived 10 minutes late, so that arrival would have been even worse had the connection been held, and then knocked on to the return of that plane from BCN which then gets into EU compensation for those passengers. Hopefully OP was able to get rerouted through another european city, else they are likely airborne right now.
Like I get the reason for the delay was annoying, but zero chance a plane takes off with someone who doesn't want to be there, it's too high risk something happens while airborne. If you were flying polaris and it forced an overnight you would be eligible for food/loding. There's actually a good chance UA classified this internally as controllable since the delay arose from a customer issue, and then anyone would experienced the delay would get overnight amenities. Regardless, if you write in saying you were 3 hours delayed and then missed your INTL connection, I'm sure they will throw some recovery compensation your way, whehter that be miles or a voucher.
Last edited by Lux Flyer; May 15, 2022 at 6:01 pm
May 15, 2022, 5:11 pm
#32
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: The place where it gets so hot in the summer some planes can't take off.
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Posts: 1,446
What did UA do to accommodate your missed flight? Did you get out on a later flight, or did they put you up for the night in Houston?
May 15, 2022, 6:42 pm
#33
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
This flight was almost 3 hours late, and we don't know how long OP's original connection was, but ConnectionSaver isn't going to delay a flight 1hr+ to save a connection (max is 15 min departure delay). Connection Saver looks to make small delays to flights, in order to allow connecting passengers running a few minutes late the opportunity to make the flight. It considers things like how late the connecting passengers are, how long the wait is for the next flight/final destination if they miss this one (i.e. last flight of day more likely to get held as opposed to one with a rebooking option 1 hour later), and the downline impacts of delaying this flight (crew duty times, connecting passengers on this flight still being able to make their connection, gates being blocked now delaying arrival of an incoming flight, etc). Flights going to HUBs are less likely to get saved as there are likely more connections on them then going to a spoke.
On a VERY high level, the simplest thing connection saver needs to do is decide how long should I delay this flight to restore the MCT from the delayed inbound flight, while not breaking the MCT for any passengers on the current flight who have connections. All while making sure duty limits aren't violated, curfews are met, and most importantly the flight still arrives on time (i.e. connection saver will never recommend a departure delay that also results in an arrival time delay).
And of course a connection saver is a recommendation to the airport to delay the door closure time, not a requirement that it be followed. Essentially the program is giving the agent formal permission to take the delay and not have it count against them, instead of the agent needing to seek out that permission from HQ for the existing reasons, but if there is an operational reason (incoming weather, curfew restrictions, etc) then they can still ignore the recommendation to get the flight out.
Edit: So I searched this a little bit more, since I realized OP gave us his departing flight too. OP's flight blocked in at IAD at 1810. According to FlightAware, IAD-BCN left out of gate C6 last night, and was scheduled to depart at 1810 (actual out was 1812). Given it was an international flight, positive bag matching would have had to be done before the flight was departed, and the cabin door closed before that, so likely the connection was already closed out before OP even got off their plane. Zero chance connection saver would have come into play here, since even with a 15 minute hold to 1825 departure, on an international flight I believe they close up at D-20, so, everything would have needed to be closed out by 1805. As it is IAD-BCN arrived 10 minutes late, so that arrival would have been even worse had the connection been held, and then knocked on to the return of that plane from BCN which then gets into EU compensation for those passengers. Hopefully OP was able to get rerouted through another european city, else they are likely airborne right now.
Like I get the reason for the delay was annoying, but zero chance a plane takes off with someone who doesn't want to be there, it's too high risk something happens while airborne. If you were flying polaris and it forced an overnight you would be eligible for food/loding. There's actually a good chance UA classified this internally as controllable since the delay arose from a customer issue, and then anyone would experienced the delay would get overnight amenities. Regardless, if you write in saying you were 3 hours delayed and then missed your INTL connection, I'm sure they will throw some recovery compensation your way, whehter that be miles or a voucher.
On a VERY high level, the simplest thing connection saver needs to do is decide how long should I delay this flight to restore the MCT from the delayed inbound flight, while not breaking the MCT for any passengers on the current flight who have connections. All while making sure duty limits aren't violated, curfews are met, and most importantly the flight still arrives on time (i.e. connection saver will never recommend a departure delay that also results in an arrival time delay).
And of course a connection saver is a recommendation to the airport to delay the door closure time, not a requirement that it be followed. Essentially the program is giving the agent formal permission to take the delay and not have it count against them, instead of the agent needing to seek out that permission from HQ for the existing reasons, but if there is an operational reason (incoming weather, curfew restrictions, etc) then they can still ignore the recommendation to get the flight out.
Edit: So I searched this a little bit more, since I realized OP gave us his departing flight too. OP's flight blocked in at IAD at 1810. According to FlightAware, IAD-BCN left out of gate C6 last night, and was scheduled to depart at 1810 (actual out was 1812). Given it was an international flight, positive bag matching would have had to be done before the flight was departed, and the cabin door closed before that, so likely the connection was already closed out before OP even got off their plane. Zero chance connection saver would have come into play here, since even with a 15 minute hold to 1825 departure, on an international flight I believe they close up at D-20, so, everything would have needed to be closed out by 1805. As it is IAD-BCN arrived 10 minutes late, so that arrival would have been even worse had the connection been held, and then knocked on to the return of that plane from BCN which then gets into EU compensation for those passengers. Hopefully OP was able to get rerouted through another european city, else they are likely airborne right now.
Like I get the reason for the delay was annoying, but zero chance a plane takes off with someone who doesn't want to be there, it's too high risk something happens while airborne. If you were flying polaris and it forced an overnight you would be eligible for food/loding. There's actually a good chance UA classified this internally as controllable since the delay arose from a customer issue, and then anyone would experienced the delay would get overnight amenities. Regardless, if you write in saying you were 3 hours delayed and then missed your INTL connection, I'm sure they will throw some recovery compensation your way, whehter that be miles or a voucher.
May 15, 2022, 6:42 pm
#34
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM; UA 1K; AA 1MM
Posts: 4,501
This flight was almost 3 hours late, and we don't know how long OP's original connection was, but ConnectionSaver isn't going to delay a flight 1hr+ to save a connection (max is 15 min departure delay). Connection Saver looks to make small delays to flights, in order to allow connecting passengers running a few minutes late the opportunity to make the flight. It considers things like how late the connecting passengers are, how long the wait is for the next flight/final destination if they miss this one (i.e. last flight of day more likely to get held as opposed to one with a rebooking option 1 hour later), and the downline impacts of delaying this flight (crew duty times, connecting passengers on this flight still being able to make their connection, gates being blocked now delaying arrival of an incoming flight, etc). Flights going to HUBs are less likely to get saved as there are likely more connections on them then going to a spoke.
On a VERY high level, the simplest thing connection saver needs to do is decide how long should I delay this flight to restore the MCT from the delayed inbound flight, while not breaking the MCT for any passengers on the current flight who have connections. All while making sure duty limits aren't violated, curfews are met, and most importantly the flight still arrives on time (i.e. connection saver will never recommend a departure delay that also results in an arrival time delay).
And of course a connection saver is a recommendation to the airport to delay the door closure time, not a requirement that it be followed. Essentially the program is giving the agent formal permission to take the delay and not have it count against them, instead of the agent needing to seek out that permission from HQ for the existing reasons, but if there is an operational reason (incoming weather, curfew restrictions, etc) then they can still ignore the recommendation to get the flight out.
Edit: So I searched this a little bit more, since I realized OP gave us his departing flight too. OP's flight blocked in at IAD at 1810. According to FlightAware, IAD-BCN left out of gate C6 last night, and was scheduled to depart at 1810 (actual out was 1812). Given it was an international flight, positive bag matching would have had to be done before the flight was departed, and the cabin door closed before that, so likely the connection was already closed out before OP even got off their plane. Zero chance connection saver would have come into play here, since even with a 15 minute hold to 1825 departure, on an international flight I believe they close up at D-20, so, everything would have needed to be closed out by 1805. As it is IAD-BCN arrived 10 minutes late, so that arrival would have been even worse had the connection been held, and then knocked on to the return of that plane from BCN which then gets into EU compensation for those passengers. Hopefully OP was able to get rerouted through another european city, else they are likely airborne right now.
Like I get the reason for the delay was annoying, but zero chance a plane takes off with someone who doesn't want to be there, it's too high risk something happens while airborne. If you were flying polaris and it forced an overnight you would be eligible for food/loding. There's actually a good chance UA classified this internally as controllable since the delay arose from a customer issue, and then anyone would experienced the delay would get overnight amenities. Regardless, if you write in saying you were 3 hours delayed and then missed your INTL connection, I'm sure they will throw some recovery compensation your way, whehter that be miles or a voucher.
On a VERY high level, the simplest thing connection saver needs to do is decide how long should I delay this flight to restore the MCT from the delayed inbound flight, while not breaking the MCT for any passengers on the current flight who have connections. All while making sure duty limits aren't violated, curfews are met, and most importantly the flight still arrives on time (i.e. connection saver will never recommend a departure delay that also results in an arrival time delay).
And of course a connection saver is a recommendation to the airport to delay the door closure time, not a requirement that it be followed. Essentially the program is giving the agent formal permission to take the delay and not have it count against them, instead of the agent needing to seek out that permission from HQ for the existing reasons, but if there is an operational reason (incoming weather, curfew restrictions, etc) then they can still ignore the recommendation to get the flight out.
Edit: So I searched this a little bit more, since I realized OP gave us his departing flight too. OP's flight blocked in at IAD at 1810. According to FlightAware, IAD-BCN left out of gate C6 last night, and was scheduled to depart at 1810 (actual out was 1812). Given it was an international flight, positive bag matching would have had to be done before the flight was departed, and the cabin door closed before that, so likely the connection was already closed out before OP even got off their plane. Zero chance connection saver would have come into play here, since even with a 15 minute hold to 1825 departure, on an international flight I believe they close up at D-20, so, everything would have needed to be closed out by 1805. As it is IAD-BCN arrived 10 minutes late, so that arrival would have been even worse had the connection been held, and then knocked on to the return of that plane from BCN which then gets into EU compensation for those passengers. Hopefully OP was able to get rerouted through another european city, else they are likely airborne right now.
Like I get the reason for the delay was annoying, but zero chance a plane takes off with someone who doesn't want to be there, it's too high risk something happens while airborne. If you were flying polaris and it forced an overnight you would be eligible for food/loding. There's actually a good chance UA classified this internally as controllable since the delay arose from a customer issue, and then anyone would experienced the delay would get overnight amenities. Regardless, if you write in saying you were 3 hours delayed and then missed your INTL connection, I'm sure they will throw some recovery compensation your way, whehter that be miles or a voucher.
May 15, 2022, 8:33 pm
#35
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,277
Additionally while IAD-BCN might be the only non-stop to BCN, that was not UA's only option for getting OP transatlantic. Just casually searching, OP could have been routed via MUC or FRA, both of which offer multiple daily flights to BCN (assuming BCN is indeed OPs final destination).
Also another thing to keep in mind is that the held departure time isn't the time they want the passenger at the gate by, that is the time they want the plane out by. To make that happen, you're still closing out the flight 10-20 minutes before that new time. In this case, even with a 20 minute connection hold (which already exceeds the time limit they will recommend a hold for), this flight would have needed to begun being closed out at 1810, in this case the exact time OP's flight blocked in.
May 15, 2022, 10:59 pm
#36
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 223
Passenger Self-Offload Decision – Refusal of Further Transportation
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May 16, 2022, 4:32 am
#37
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: Does Non Rev count?
Posts: 587
May 16, 2022, 9:33 am
#39
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,178
Connection Saver is alive and well. I see it on many of my departures from hub airports.
Often, it is just a reduction of the normal 15 minute (domestic) cutoff time by a few minutes. Sometimes it moves that cutoff time to after our scheduled departure time but not always. After that delayed cutoff time the agent still has to come down the jetbridge with our closeout paperwork, close the cabin door, and retract the jetbridge. This will often push our block-out time past scheduled departure even when the hold time was less than 15 minutes.
If you have a tight connection, operations and the gate agent(s) are aware of your situation and a decision has been made regarding how long we can wait for you. Connection Saver gives operations the information they need to make better hold decisions.
Often, it is just a reduction of the normal 15 minute (domestic) cutoff time by a few minutes. Sometimes it moves that cutoff time to after our scheduled departure time but not always. After that delayed cutoff time the agent still has to come down the jetbridge with our closeout paperwork, close the cabin door, and retract the jetbridge. This will often push our block-out time past scheduled departure even when the hold time was less than 15 minutes.
If you have a tight connection, operations and the gate agent(s) are aware of your situation and a decision has been made regarding how long we can wait for you. Connection Saver gives operations the information they need to make better hold decisions.
May 16, 2022, 2:50 pm
#40
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 90
OP I would be beyond pissed if that happened to me….and for all those who are shrugging this off as a bump in the travel road… nope this is an anomaly and should never have happened.
Those passengers who wanted off should have figured out their issues before getting on the plane and then when they landed at IAD they could have bought a ticket home on another flight, rented a car or taken a bus.
Screw those passengers who wanted off…they can get off the airplane when it lands at IAD!
Those passengers who wanted off should have figured out their issues before getting on the plane and then when they landed at IAD they could have bought a ticket home on another flight, rented a car or taken a bus.
Screw those passengers who wanted off…they can get off the airplane when it lands at IAD!
May 16, 2022, 3:00 pm
#41
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,985
On a flight last year, the purser thought he was a comedian and announced multiple times that, if you didn't replace your mask between, "bites and sips", he would have to throw you off the flight, "and that is no fun at 35,000 feet".
Last edited by zombietooth; May 16, 2022 at 3:05 pm
May 16, 2022, 4:41 pm
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: TOA
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May 17, 2022, 2:14 pm
#43
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 4
Still reading through everyone's posts. We made it to our final destinaton (BCN) 36 hours late and a total of 52 hours after leaving our house in TX. Some clarification on the second passenger:
The second passenger that ruined everything wanted off so she could catch a 4 pm flight to montreal. I heard her tell the flight attendant. And the flight attendant said “i’ll ask the captain”. That was the end of the discussion, i sat across the aisle. Bonafide. Unbelievable. Unprecedented. The people that sat even closer (behind) were screaming at the flight attendant in the aisle, after the woman got off. "Why didnt you ask her more questions?! You didnt say anything to her.." etc etc. I can't speak to what the FA said to the flight deck, but this woman was pretty normal looking and behaving normal and quiet. I don't see how a risk could have been perceived.
United offered me a $300 voucher.. lol. I complained further.
They did offer some bammer hotels, but I have chase sapphire trip delay insurance and put myself up. They put us on a flight to germany 24 hours later, which we board on time then sat on the tarmac for 3 hours, and missed our lufthansa connection. Made a later one tho...
The second passenger that ruined everything wanted off so she could catch a 4 pm flight to montreal. I heard her tell the flight attendant. And the flight attendant said “i’ll ask the captain”. That was the end of the discussion, i sat across the aisle. Bonafide. Unbelievable. Unprecedented. The people that sat even closer (behind) were screaming at the flight attendant in the aisle, after the woman got off. "Why didnt you ask her more questions?! You didnt say anything to her.." etc etc. I can't speak to what the FA said to the flight deck, but this woman was pretty normal looking and behaving normal and quiet. I don't see how a risk could have been perceived.
United offered me a $300 voucher.. lol. I complained further.
They did offer some bammer hotels, but I have chase sapphire trip delay insurance and put myself up. They put us on a flight to germany 24 hours later, which we board on time then sat on the tarmac for 3 hours, and missed our lufthansa connection. Made a later one tho...
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 17, 2022 at 2:19 pm Reason: merged consecutive posts by same member
May 17, 2022, 5:08 pm
#44
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,115
Flight UA400 yesterday was on time and at the runway when two passengers decided they wanted off, for what appeared to be not a medical emergency. Captain returned to gate. We pushed back again. During pushback another woman said she wanted off because she was now going to miss her connection. Captain decides to return to gate again, except now no gate is available. The flight was delayed 2.5 hours and about 50 people, including us, missed international connections. They didn't hold our connecting plane a single minute. We sprinted from d28 to c6 at IAD to find our plane still at the gate with the door closed and no agent.
Questions - 1) How can the captain do this? Apparently united has a policy to let “uncomfortable” passengers off? If so, absurd
2) What is my best path to some sort of compensation for the delay and upset to our vacation?
Thank you.
Questions - 1) How can the captain do this? Apparently united has a policy to let “uncomfortable” passengers off? If so, absurd
2) What is my best path to some sort of compensation for the delay and upset to our vacation?
Thank you.
May 17, 2022, 8:37 pm
#45
Join Date: May 2001
Location: RNO, NV, USA.
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 5,056
Still reading through everyone's posts. We made it to our final destinaton (BCN) 36 hours late and a total of 52 hours after leaving our house in TX. Some clarification on the second passenger:
The second passenger that ruined everything wanted off so she could catch a 4 pm flight to montreal. I heard her tell the flight attendant. And the flight attendant said “i’ll ask the captain”. That was the end of the discussion, i sat across the aisle. Bonafide. Unbelievable. Unprecedented. The people that sat even closer (behind) were screaming at the flight attendant in the aisle, after the woman got off. "Why didnt you ask her more questions?! You didnt say anything to her.." etc etc. I can't speak to what the FA said to the flight deck, but this woman was pretty normal looking and behaving normal and quiet. I don't see how a risk could have been perceived.
...
The second passenger that ruined everything wanted off so she could catch a 4 pm flight to montreal. I heard her tell the flight attendant. And the flight attendant said “i’ll ask the captain”. That was the end of the discussion, i sat across the aisle. Bonafide. Unbelievable. Unprecedented. The people that sat even closer (behind) were screaming at the flight attendant in the aisle, after the woman got off. "Why didnt you ask her more questions?! You didnt say anything to her.." etc etc. I can't speak to what the FA said to the flight deck, but this woman was pretty normal looking and behaving normal and quiet. I don't see how a risk could have been perceived.
...
Also textbookwarrior welcome to FlyerTalk. ✈️
Last edited by restlessinRNO; May 17, 2022 at 8:46 pm
