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The way of the Dodo? - 1K upgrades, PP or CPU

Old Jan 27, 2024, 4:51 pm
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The way of the Dodo? - 1K upgrades, PP or CPU

Old Mar 18, 2023, 11:15 am
  #766  
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
But by giving PremPlus/PE upgrade priority, UA effectively did that.
If you waitlist, I suppose thatís true. But, on DL, if there is confirmable Business class upgrade space at booking, you still have to purchase PE to access it. On UA, you have a choice ó purchase PE, Economy fares W or above, or deep discount economy fares, and pay the appropriate number of PlusPoints. Thatís a fairly significant difference ó even if PZ space is getting rarer and rarer.
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Old Mar 18, 2023, 11:24 am
  #767  
 
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Originally Posted by jsloan
If you waitlist, I suppose thatís true. But, on DL, if there is confirmable Business class upgrade space at booking, you still have to purchase PE to access it. On UA, you have a choice ó purchase PE, Economy fares W or above, or deep discount economy fares, and pay the appropriate number of PlusPoints. Thatís a fairly significant difference ó even if PZ space is getting rarer and rarer.
Is it just as difficult to UG from PE to J on DL as UA? So far, I've just been buying F/J outright when I fly them because I am low-status.
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Old Mar 18, 2023, 1:55 pm
  #768  
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Originally Posted by jsloan
For the same reason that DL did: to drive the incremental sale of PE seats.
Except UA is having zero issue selling PE seats, constantly and consistently WAY oversells that cabin and then OpUps them. If they were having an issue selling the cabin then I would understand. Plus if you believe half the people on this board then many are already buying PE simply for the "hope" that PPs for the upgrade will clear.

-RM
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Old Mar 18, 2023, 3:20 pm
  #769  
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Originally Posted by RobOnLI
Except UA is having zero issue selling PE seats, constantly and consistently WAY oversells that cabin and then OpUps them. ...
That may be a bit of an overstatement. Yes, UA oversells PremPlus but it seems supported upgrades balances out the situation most of the time. The number of reports OpUps from PremPlus has been very, very few. And O fares are relatively close to P fares.
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Old Mar 18, 2023, 3:46 pm
  #770  
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
That may be a bit of an overstatement. Yes, UA oversells PremPlus but it seems supported upgrades balances out the situation most of the time. The number of reports OpUps from PremPlus has been very, very few. And O fares are relatively close to P fares.
In the past, when J cabin sales were lagging, UA would open PZ to drive W purchases. Now it opens R. The net effect in filling the J cabin is more or less the same.
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Old Mar 18, 2023, 3:58 pm
  #771  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
In the past, when J cabin sales were lagging, UA would open PZ to drive W purchases. Now it opens R. The net effect in filling the J cabin is more or less the same.
The situation varies by routes and each of us only has visibility to a small slice of the reality. But the concern of constantly and consistently OpUps on a large scale feels like a overstatement based on the lack of reports supporting that. Lower status PremPlus supported upgraders over 1Ks in regularly economy does have supporting evidence. The economy 1K may not care which it was but the details matter when discussing the larger situation.
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Old Mar 18, 2023, 4:08 pm
  #772  
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
The situation varies by routes and each of us only has visibility to a small slice of the reality. But the concern of constantly and consistently OpUps on a large scale feels like a overstatement based on the lack of reports supporting that. Lower status PremPlus supported upgraders over 1Ks in regularly economy does have supporting evidence. The economy 1K may not care which it was but the details matter when discussing the larger situation.
Agree that we see only a very small piece of the overall picture.

That said, UA's practice of overselling PE is a negative for 1K upgrades not just because of the lower relative priority, but because it results in J blocks and decreases the likelihood that UA will open advance PZ.

It would be interesting to compare the W to R fares, as upfaring to R in these situations would seem to be potentially a very smart move.
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Old Mar 18, 2023, 4:46 pm
  #773  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee
That said, UA's practice of overselling PE is a negative for 1K upgrades not just because of the lower relative priority, but because it results in J blocks and decreases the likelihood that UA will open advance PZ.
Them not releasing advanced PZ when PP is oversold makes minimal difference unless you are taking advantage of the fact there is a disassociation between when PZ gets released and when people currently on the upgrade list get processed into PZ (to cancel/reapply the upgrade request). Anyone in PP on the waitlist for an upgrade (which is likely a factor they consider when willing to oversell PP) should be clearing before any 1ks in Y anyway. The only people who theoretically lose out from PP being oversold is GS in Y, but UA Has separate mechanisms for them to confirm their upgrades.
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Old Mar 18, 2023, 7:34 pm
  #774  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee
Agree that we see only a very small piece of the overall picture.

That said, UA's practice of overselling PE is a negative for 1K upgrades not just because of the lower relative priority, but because it results in J blocks and decreases the likelihood that UA will open advance PZ.

It would be interesting to compare the W to R fares, as upfaring to R in these situations would seem to be potentially a very smart move.
On my routes, R is usually ~$200- to $300- more than W. Sometimes O is almost the same price, although I tend to buy my flights far out, so maybe O gets more expensive close-in.
I wouldn't have a major complaint about paying a few hundred more for a better chance at an UG, but my success rate from P+ is pretty poor.
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Old Mar 18, 2023, 7:51 pm
  #775  
 
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The thing is, for a domestic flight that is direct, not having advance PZ generally only means I will be flying UA in premium economy, or F if I buy it. Not having advance PZ on international means I will buy a business class seat on another, cheaper airline with better service and food.
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Last edited by Artpen100; Mar 19, 2023 at 11:45 am
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Old Mar 18, 2023, 8:20 pm
  #776  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
Agree that we see only a very small piece of the overall picture.

That said, UA's practice of overselling PE is a negative for 1K upgrades not just because of the lower relative priority, but because it results in J blocks and decreases the likelihood that UA will open advance PZ.

It would be interesting to compare the W to R fares, as upfaring to R in these situations would seem to be potentially a very smart move.
A friend bought TPE-SFO-TPE W Class for $1,600.

PE fare for the identical dates is $2,900.

The differential is $650 each way but PE would very likely gets him upgraded.
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Old Mar 19, 2023, 12:30 am
  #777  
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Originally Posted by kb1992
A friend bought TPE-SFO-TPE W Class for $1,600.

PE fare for the identical dates is $2,900.

The differential is $650 each way but PE would very likely gets him upgraded.
Was that an R, or a higher fare class? If UA can oversell PE into O or A, I can't really blame them. It's when they open R with an oversold PE cabin that the UA oversell strategy is most impactful on 1K upgrades.
Originally Posted by Lux Flyer
Them not releasing advanced PZ when PP is oversold makes minimal difference unless you are taking advantage of the fact there is a disassociation between when PZ gets released and when people currently on the upgrade list get processed into PZ (to cancel/reapply the upgrade request).
That's exactly what I'm talking about, and for the FT audience, that is absolutely a significant impact.

I'm not sure why anyone would comment otherwise, except to be contrary.
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Old Mar 19, 2023, 12:57 am
  #778  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
Was that an R, or a higher fare class? If UA can oversell PE into O or A, I can't really blame them. It's when they open R with an oversold PE cabin that the UA oversell strategy is most impactful on 1K upgrades.


That's exactly what I'm talking about, and for the FT audience, that is absolutely a significant impact.

I'm not sure why anyone would comment otherwise, except to be contrary.
outbound is O

return is A


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Old Mar 19, 2023, 1:05 am
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Originally Posted by Kacee
That's exactly what I'm talking about, and for the FT audience, that is absolutely a significant impact.
So you're upset that a loophole in the system to skip yourself ahead of your rightful place on the waitlist is prevented from being exploited? Got it.
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Old Mar 19, 2023, 1:56 am
  #780  
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Originally Posted by zombietooth
Is it just as difficult to UG from PE to J on DL as UA? So far, I've just been buying F/J outright when I fly them because I am low-status.
The last that I heard, the only way to know which flights, if any, had confirmable space was to call DL and ask. I have no status on DL, but that would be a major, major impediment for me personally ó I would absolutely hate taking up somebodyís time for that.

Originally Posted by RobOnLI
Except UA is having zero issue selling PE seats, constantly and consistently WAY oversells that cabin and then OpUps them. If they were having an issue selling the cabin then I would understand. Plus if you believe half the people on this board then many are already buying PE simply for the "hope" that PPs for the upgrade will clear.
Perhaps thatís why they havenít done it yet. But itís still why they would, and why DL did.

Originally Posted by Lux Flyer
Them not releasing advanced PZ when PP is oversold makes minimal difference unless you are taking advantage of the fact there is a disassociation between when PZ gets released and when people currently on the upgrade list get processed into PZ (to cancel/reapply the upgrade request).
Less PZ is a negative for every 1K who prefers to book upgrade space that can be confirmed at booking. If significant O/A/R oversells suck up PZ space, thatís a big issue for me, not because Iím necessarily trying to jump over them in a queue, but because I donít have much interest in being in a queue in the first place.
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