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UA Christmas 2021 / January 2022 Ops / staffing Issues

UA Christmas 2021 / January 2022 Ops / staffing Issues

Old Dec 24, 2021, 8:53 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by CALMSP
just seems so odd how all of a sudden the day before/day of there's a shortage…
sucks to be everyone who now will not get to xmas. thankfully I flew out yesterday!
The rules I’ve seen is that one needs to treat themselves as positive if they’re waiting in a test. (Eg the covid check in on the United app makes it clear you aren’t suppose to check the boxes if you’re waiting on a test you suspect may be positive, I.e. any test other then one needed to comply with travel that requires testing).

Bit of a loophole.
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Last edited by l etoile; Dec 24, 2021 at 1:15 pm
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 8:57 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by xliioper
Still can't grasp how AA and WN are relatively unscathed compared to DL and UA unless they have a lot more reserves available. I suppose some of it could be due to location of bases and Covid hotspots, but that still doesn't seem like a sufficient explanation.
It’s affecting JetBlue today as well… definitely seems to be a correlation between UA, DL and B6 having large northeast hubs vs AA and WN
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 9:36 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by uanj
To be fair, DL has canceled almost as many and the root cause is Omicro's high transmissability along with the current requirement of 10 day isolation after testing positive.
That's UA's pitch. If it were true, you'd expect to see same across all the majors. Yet AA has 11 cancels thus far today compared to 176 for UA.

It was reported in VFTW that the real cause is the number of religious exemptions from vaccination requirement, particularly among 737 pilots.
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 9:41 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by CALMSP
just seems so odd how all of a sudden the day before/day of there's a shortage. …

sucks to be everyone who now will not get to xmas. thankfully I flew out yesterday!
it is quite sudden, that is how the pandemic works. my health care provider informed me that testing is not available with less than a 3 day turnaround time, possibly more assuming you can get an appointment (in the DC-VA area). i also know people suddenly come down with covid in the past few days and now have to quarantine the family. If you get enough of those scenarios it's not hard to figure out what is going on. YMMV.

Last edited by l etoile; Dec 24, 2021 at 1:17 pm
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 9:41 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee

It was reported in VFTW that the real cause is the number of religious exemptions from vaccination requirement, particularly among 737 pilots.
United gave no exemptions. In fact, Kirby specifically warned all aircrew that if they applied for a religious exemption they were putting their jobs at risk.
Every United pilot flying is fully vaccinated. Therefore, every United pilot currently infected with COVID and unable to fly over the Christmas period is fully vaccinated.
Delta, Jet Blue and Alaskan Airlines all required all their aircrew to get vaccinated. American and Southwest did not.
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 9:45 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Rock214
United gave no exemptions.
Reports are that UA placed over 300 pilots on involuntary leave because they claimed a religious exemption.

I support UA's move but it does appear to have impacted ops.
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 10:02 am
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee
Reports are that UA placed over 300 pilots on involuntary leave because they claimed a religious exemption.

I support UA's move but it does appear to have impacted ops.
What I heard is 300+ pilots are on unpaid leave but not necessarily due to religious exemptions.
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 10:08 am
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by CALMSP
just seems so odd how all of a sudden the day before/day of there's a shortage.

sucks to be everyone who now will not get to xmas. thankfully I flew out yesterday!
Here’s my experience which many of my fellow crew members fell into this week as this variant flared up.

There is required testing for numerous international flights prior to departure (which most likely explains why DL and UA are affected the most.) I tested COVID positive with absolutely no symptoms three hours before departure. Subsequently got pulled off the trip and was told to quarantine and stay away for a minimum of 10 days. A reserve pilot was called to fill my spot on 764 trip.

Most of our reserves got their days off rolled to cover the holidays but are now subject to mandated rest requirements which are now falling on 24-28th of this month.

Looking at open time this morning, I’ve never seen so many trips at 200% in my 15+ years at the airline. There’s just no one available to fly these trips considering such a large segment of the crew population is a pumpkin for at least 10 days.

I’m sorry to all those passengers stranded because of the cancellations. I’m also sorry to my fellow crew members that are quarantined and missing Christmas with their families.

An unfortunate situation all around. I wouldn’t be so quick to point the finger at crew taking “advantage” of the circumstances.
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Last edited by l etoile; Dec 24, 2021 at 1:18 pm
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 10:14 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by Rock214
United gave no exemptions. In fact, Kirby specifically warned all aircrew that if they applied for a religious exemption they were putting their jobs at risk.
Every United pilot flying is fully vaccinated. Therefore, every United pilot currently infected with COVID and unable to fly over the Christmas period is fully vaccinated.
Delta, Jet Blue and Alaskan Airlines all required all their aircrew to get vaccinated. American and Southwest did not.
which is odd since Scott is so concerned about DEI. Doesn't really fit the mold if someone claims religious exemption and he says [no go] with that.

Last edited by l etoile; Dec 24, 2021 at 1:02 pm Reason: mod edit due to bypassing profanity filter
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 10:28 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by clubord
An unfortunate situation all around. I wouldn’t be so quick to point the finger at crew taking “advantage” of the circumstances.
I agree. I fly for an international cargo airline and based on constantly changing international requirements, I end up getting tested 4 or 5 times on a single 10 day trip. Usually in multiple countries. Worse yet, every pilot I fly with also gets tested. If any one of those pilots tests positive, every pilot he has recently flown with is removed from the flying schedule and potentially locked in quarantine for up to 14 days. Given some of the countries we fly to, that amounts to 14 days in a third world prison cell. Many (most) countries do not care about vaccine status. And this latest variant doesn’t care about vaccine status either. As United is learning, having 100% of your pilots vaccinated does not necessarily protect any of them from a COVID infection.

With any luck, this omicron variant will finally put an end to this two year period of pain. Fortunately, data from countries who have been dealing with it for weeks show that it’s very mild. A vast majority of people getting it are vaccinated. So for the price of a mild cold they’ll gain natural immunity to top off whatever protection their vaccines offer, and COVID will become more of a cold than a killer.

In the meantime, it’s a bad idea to blame ANYONE for the inconvenience we are all suffering from the impact of this pandemic. Viruses are going to virus. There is a very good chance that anyone reading this will have a close contact with someone infected with the omicron variant. If you are a United pilot you have to report it and you are removed from the flying schedule. Or, you could withhold that info and continue to fly. What would most passengers prefer?
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 10:38 am
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee
That's UA's pitch. If it were true, you'd expect to see same across all the majors. Yet AA has 11 cancels thus far today compared to 176 for UA.
As ClubORD said, the required pre-testing for a long list of international destinations is likely hitting us, and Delta, harder than AA, B6, etc. when asymptomatic crewmembers test positive.

Also, it's not just positive tests. We are required to report any COVID-like symptoms (fever, cough, congestion, fatigue, etc.) and that report will ground us for at least ten days even if we subsequently test negative. I think a negative test followed by a doctor's report that you are COVID free can get you back to work sooner but the process still takes a few days. December always brings more colds and flu and Thanksgiving gatherings likely increased the rate of spread of COVID and non-COVID illnesses. Now Omicron is spreading even quickly than previous strains.

I've reported symptoms twice, though have never had COVID, and was grounded for 10 days each time. The first time was during my requalification training, so I didn't miss any trips. The second was a cold that resulted in me missing a four-day trip but the cold symptoms alone would have kept me from flying that trip even if there were no COVID restrictions.

It was reported in VFTW that the real cause is the number of religious exemptions from vaccination requirement, particularly among 737 pilots.
That's not helping. We are, and have been, tighter on our 737 CA staffing than on Airbus or 737 FO staffing. This has been quite obvious from the relatively large number of open trips being offered with premium pay on the 737 CA lists.

UAL granted fewer early retirements during the pandemic and displaced crews at a lower rate than our major competitors. This helped reduce the amount of requalification training needed once growth returned and prevented any significant schedule disruptions until now. The training center has been running at full capacity since last May. We have been hiring 45 to 50 new pilots every week since May and are upgrading new Captains as fast as they can be trained.

Originally Posted by Rock214
United gave no exemptions.
There were around 300 +/- exemptions granted to pilots, spread out over all fleets and both seats. Kirby has said that only six pilots were terminated for being unvaccinated without having an exemption approved. Those granted an exemption are on unpaid leave until the pandemic meaningfully subsides.
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 10:46 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
Also, it's not just positive tests. We are required to report any COVID-like symptoms (fever, cough, congestion, fatigue, etc.) and that report will ground us for at least ten days even if we subsequently test negative.
Madness. All of those symptoms can also be regular cold/flu, or something else non-Covid, non cold/flu related.

People standing on long lines waiting outside in cold weather for hours to get tested, even if negative, is highly susceptible to get sick anyway.

Good luck to all stranded passengers. UA needs to rethink its Covid protocol. Check out what other industries are doing now in response.
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 10:48 am
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
There were around 300 +/- exemptions granted to pilots, spread out over all fleets and both seats. Kirby has said that only six pilots were terminated for being unvaccinated without having an exemption approved. Those granted an exemption are on unpaid leave until the pandemic meaningfully subsides.
Good correction. Thank you.
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 11:36 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by cfischer
10 domestic cancellations yesterday due to aircraft maintenance as well. The Covid thing is not controllable, the other operational issues are ...
Not if COVID is taking out ops and mechanical people.
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Old Dec 24, 2021, 11:38 am
  #45  
 
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[Moderator edit.] When they agree to their job they agree that they MIGHT work during Christmas

a request is a request not a guarantee

I was not happy when I, for example as a high school student, didn’t get my requested time off during Christmas for retail but I understood I had agreed to the job knowing maybe I’d work that day or all the holidays


if they gave them all their requested time off hardly anyone would be working the airline right now


this attitude from the employees is immature and selfish. Period.
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Last edited by l etoile; Dec 24, 2021 at 1:21 pm
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