Denver issues: 19 Aug 2021 WX / Gate availability & 20 Aug concourse train breakdown
#17
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
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Those are issued when an airline is running out of gate space due to the cascading delays. They are used to reduce the incidence of long tarmac delays.
#18
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 1,580
Wow, I was really lucky yesterday (19th). My 1:50 departure didn't actually lift off until about 2:40, and I was watching the storm a bit north of the airport out of the window and on the weather radar. I told my seat mate that if we didn't get off before the weather hit, we could be stuck for hours. We made it. AND my mainline incoming landed in A, had to train to B. I noticed a walkway from A to baggage claim (I think it is aerial?) but of course, unlike say ATL, no way to hoof it on foot. New (to me) gates at the low numbers in B. Isn't that where the regionals used to go out from, or am I mistaken?
Last edited by MojaveFlyer; Aug 20, 2021 at 9:16 pm
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Denver, CO USA
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The only part of this I can comment on is the "wee thunderstorm" comment. As a Captain, there is NO wee thunderstorm. Airliners have crashed because of pilot hubris in thinking they can beat the weather, or it won't be that bad. I will ALWAYS delay or divert if the weather picture doesn't meet my personal standards for safety. I am certain my peers feel the same way.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Aug 20, 2021 at 2:43 pm Reason: Using symbols, spaces or other methods to mask vulgarities is not allowed.
#20
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#21
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Denver, CO
Programs: UA 1K 25 years/2MM, Honors LT Diamond, AVIS & Hertz Prez Club
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I had a friend flying DFW-DEN. 2/3 of the way to DEN they started circling, then diverted to ABQ. Another UA jet PVR-DEN diverted to ABQ as well. Took a good amount of time for them to get refueled and a slot to head back to DEN.
I live near the airport, we had multiple tornado warnings, multiple thunderstorms, two hail storms - over a three hour period. Anyone can arm chair quarterback but the reality is yesterday was not a typical bad weather day for Denver.
As far as inop escalators and moving walkways, there are quite a large number of these in the airport and at any given time one is always having scheduled maintenance. The airport has an on site contractor to provide those maintenance events, so yes, as you move through the airport, you may see something being maintained, but it is all part of the overall plan.
This afternoon the airport acknowledged that the train situation was unacceptable. The new Airport CEO has made preventative maintenance and creating the best traveler experience a very high priority for DEN. I expect he will give people a short period of time to give a full assessment and recommendations for improvement and he will then implement the changes with approvals from City Council. Watch this space.
I live near the airport, we had multiple tornado warnings, multiple thunderstorms, two hail storms - over a three hour period. Anyone can arm chair quarterback but the reality is yesterday was not a typical bad weather day for Denver.
As far as inop escalators and moving walkways, there are quite a large number of these in the airport and at any given time one is always having scheduled maintenance. The airport has an on site contractor to provide those maintenance events, so yes, as you move through the airport, you may see something being maintained, but it is all part of the overall plan.
This afternoon the airport acknowledged that the train situation was unacceptable. The new Airport CEO has made preventative maintenance and creating the best traveler experience a very high priority for DEN. I expect he will give people a short period of time to give a full assessment and recommendations for improvement and he will then implement the changes with approvals from City Council. Watch this space.
#22
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rockin' the Bakken
Programs: Several
Posts: 978
T-storm was intense, but lasted no more than 30 minutes. UA put a 777 in the air with a crew which had NO margin for error. They stranded a TON of pax in ORD - rippled through this AM with a number of invol deboards to just get the MP pax to Denver. I agree with you and your peers - but if {UA} isn't able (with today's amazing technology) to properly plan out a flight, the pax shouldn't suffer. Looking at the flight track for 407, they were hoping against hope they could get a slot and only turned around at minimum fuel. They were nearly within easy driving distance of Denver when they turned around.
You can disparage United's flight planning all you like, but a lot more goes into it then you know. This speaking from someone who has been delayed (and stuck) almost 20 hours in airports the last two days with Denver being included in that.
#23
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Travel Waiver: Denver Train Outage (August 20, 2021)
(FWIW)
Airport:
Original ticket must have been purchased by: August 19, 2021
Rebook language: The change fee and any difference in fare will be waived for new United flights departing on or before August 21, 2021, as long as travel is rescheduled in the originally ticketed cabin (any fare class) and between the same cities as originally ticketed. View your reservation and select Change Flight to search for alternate flights.
Waiver (normal folks): https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...merica-waivers
Jetstream Waiver (posted): https://jetstream.united.com/#/all-travel-waiver
Waiver Parameter Code (posted): 1+
David
Airport:
- Denver, CO (DEN)
Rebook language: The change fee and any difference in fare will be waived for new United flights departing on or before August 21, 2021, as long as travel is rescheduled in the originally ticketed cabin (any fare class) and between the same cities as originally ticketed. View your reservation and select Change Flight to search for alternate flights.
Waiver (normal folks): https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...merica-waivers
Jetstream Waiver (posted): https://jetstream.united.com/#/all-travel-waiver
Waiver Parameter Code (posted): 1+
David
#24
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T-storm was intense, but lasted no more than 30 minutes. UA put a 777 in the air with a crew which had NO margin for error. They stranded a TON of pax in ORD - rippled through this AM with a number of invol deboards to just get the MP pax to Denver. I agree with you and your peers - but if {UA} isn't able (with today's amazing technology) to properly plan out a flight, the pax shouldn't suffer. Looking at the flight track for 407, they were hoping against hope they could get a slot and only turned around at minimum fuel. They were nearly within easy driving distance of Denver when they turned around.
first of all, with thunderstorms, note that if there is lightning within some amount of miles of the airport (I forgot how many), crew can not be outside for something like 20 minutes. That clock resets anytime there is additional lightning. That means yes, it could very well be due to weather (and then the backlog it causes).
second, weather and other factors can change quickly sometimes, and also in unexpected ways. If you think UA was trying to do something without a margin of error, think again. Everything in aviation has backups and many times backups for the backups. It is surely an inconvenience for your wife, yes, but it is much worse of an inconvenience for the airline…puts crew and planes in places they are not supposed to be, which has down line consequences, has them scrambling to rebook potentially hundreds of passengers, no easy feat in the pre-covid days, much less when schedules have less leeway than before, and cost a lot of $, which they need to absorb.
Ive been flying UA as a premier of various flavors for 15+ years, hundreds of segments for sure, and I can recall being diverted a total of 3 times. Definitely had well more major weather delays and cancellations than that, it’s not even close. Say what you will, but I think they’re record, overall, is pretty good, even though Ive certainly had my share of inconveniences, late arrivals, etc.
The fact is there are issues sometimes that aren’t the fault of the airline or the passenger, but when both suffer. That traveling, love it or hate it.
#25
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: Does Non Rev count?
Posts: 588
T-storm was intense, but lasted no more than 30 minutes. UA put a 777 in the air with a crew which had NO margin for error. They stranded a TON of pax in ORD - rippled through this AM with a number of invol deboards to just get the MP pax to Denver. I agree with you and your peers - but if {UA} isn't able (with today's amazing technology) to properly plan out a flight, the pax shouldn't suffer. Looking at the flight track for 407, they were hoping against hope they could get a slot and only turned around at minimum fuel. They were nearly within easy driving distance of Denver when they turned around.
Further, just because a storm only lasted 30 minutes, doesn't mean that the severe WX hazards are now gone.
#26
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Denver, CO
Programs: UA 1K 25 years/2MM, Honors LT Diamond, AVIS & Hertz Prez Club
Posts: 4,753
Four years ago (August 20th, 2017) I posted this on Facebook:
Well, last night was fun. My 4.5 hour trip took over 8. Got to Denver and had severe weather including wind shear during landing and had to execute a go-around just before landing and then tried to wait out the storm, but we ran out of fuel and had to go to Colorado Springs and wait it out there. So much fun!
Seems this time of year brings these severe storms to Denver.
Well, last night was fun. My 4.5 hour trip took over 8. Got to Denver and had severe weather including wind shear during landing and had to execute a go-around just before landing and then tried to wait out the storm, but we ran out of fuel and had to go to Colorado Springs and wait it out there. So much fun!
Seems this time of year brings these severe storms to Denver.
#27
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,192
The only part of this I can comment on is the "wee thunderstorm" comment. As a Captain, there is NO wee thunderstorm. Airliners have crashed because of pilot hubris in thinking they can beat the weather, or it won't be that bad. I will ALWAYS delay or divert if the weather picture doesn't meet my personal standards for safety. I am certain my peers feel the same way.
#28
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CLE, DCA, and 30k feet
Programs: Honors LT Diamond; United 1K; Hertz PC
Posts: 4,156
Beyond those incidents that make the news if you look at NTSB dockets and accident reports it's rather shocking how dangerous the back of an airplane can be during turbulence. I've read more than a few operator reports/crewmember statements involving broken limbs in the aft galleys (particularly on express-sized aircraft) for turbulence on descent that the PIC described in their account as "a few bumps" or "light chop".
I'll reiterate: I put my life and safety in the hands of a professional every time I fly. I'd much rather that professional say "sorry, we can't get you there now" than "Yes sir! Of course, sir!" while flying me into the ground somewhere near my intended destination.
#29
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,181
That was Delta 191, L1011 at DFW. August 2, 1985. We learned quite a bit about microbursts since then and now have much better predictive and detection equipment in the airplanes and ATC facilities. If I remember correctly, it was the DL191 accident that led to the development of the wind shear escape profile that we all train on today.