Could COVID be UA’s opportunity to order the 777X?
Jul 18, 2021, 8:39 pm
#31
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 19
The 744s are long gone and "replaced" ; the oldest 772 are what, ~25 years old? they have time left and are still perfectly fine aircraft, those will be replaced by 789/J but not for several years.
They've already said the 321 is replacing the 752.
I don't see how UA could "convert" an airbus order to a Boeing one.
Given how poorly the 77X program is progressing, and how new the 77W/787 fleet is, how B will just bend over for the sake of selling frames. There needs to be a digestion of all the retiring 767's, and then first gen 777 into freighters before the 779 is ready. Not to mention the pandemic probably taught the airlines they can leave some money on the table for the sake of greater efficiency... Why struggle to fill a 779 when you can make a higher yield on a 789.
They've already said the 321 is replacing the 752.
I don't see how UA could "convert" an airbus order to a Boeing one.
Given how poorly the 77X program is progressing, and how new the 77W/787 fleet is, how B will just bend over for the sake of selling frames. There needs to be a digestion of all the retiring 767's, and then first gen 777 into freighters before the 779 is ready. Not to mention the pandemic probably taught the airlines they can leave some money on the table for the sake of greater efficiency... Why struggle to fill a 779 when you can make a higher yield on a 789.
UA could first cancel the A359 order before ordering RR 788s and 779s. Given that the PW 777 may be retired following their grounding in March. UA could replace the 77E with 77W/78Js out of ORD/EWR/IAD and 789s out of IAH. The 779 can be used on former 744 routes out of SFO as well as EWR-Asia.
The 744s are long gone and "replaced" ; the oldest 772 are what, ~25 years old? they have time left and are still perfectly fine aircraft, those will be replaced by 789/J but not for several years.
They've already said the 321 is replacing the 752.
I don't see how UA could "convert" an airbus order to a Boeing one.
Given how poorly the 77X program is progressing, and how new the 77W/787 fleet is, how B will just bend over for the sake of selling frames. There needs to be a digestion of all the retiring 767's, and then first gen 777 into freighters before the 779 is ready. Not to mention the pandemic probably taught the airlines they can leave some money on the table for the sake of greater efficiency... Why struggle to fill a 779 when you can make a higher yield on a 789.
They've already said the 321 is replacing the 752.
I don't see how UA could "convert" an airbus order to a Boeing one.
Given how poorly the 77X program is progressing, and how new the 77W/787 fleet is, how B will just bend over for the sake of selling frames. There needs to be a digestion of all the retiring 767's, and then first gen 777 into freighters before the 779 is ready. Not to mention the pandemic probably taught the airlines they can leave some money on the table for the sake of greater efficiency... Why struggle to fill a 779 when you can make a higher yield on a 789.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jul 18, 2021 at 9:09 pm Reason: merged consecutive posts by same member
Jul 18, 2021, 10:11 pm
#32
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May I ask why are you so insisting on n RR 788 ?
RR Trent 1000 had proved to be a complete failure, it was a living HELL for any airlines that use RR for their 787 in the past 3 years. So despite all the known problems why would UA still want to stick it in the RR mess ???
May I ask why are you so insisting on n RR 788 ?
RR Trent 1000 had proved to be a complete failure, it was a living HELL for any airlines that use RR for their 787 in the past 3 years. So despite all the known problems why would UA still want to stick it in the RR mess ???
Jul 18, 2021, 10:23 pm
#33
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 19
May I ask why are you so insisting on n RR 788 ?
RR Trent 1000 had proved to be a complete failure, it was a living HELL for any airlines that use RR for their 787 in the past 3 years. So despite all the known problems why would UA still want to stick it in the RR mess ???
May I ask why are you so insisting on n RR 788 ?
RR Trent 1000 had proved to be a complete failure, it was a living HELL for any airlines that use RR for their 787 in the past 3 years. So despite all the known problems why would UA still want to stick it in the RR mess ???
Jul 19, 2021, 12:17 am
#34
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The jury is still out on that engine. UA is not going to commit to new engine type without proper performance and reliability track records.
One of the main reasons amongst a number of other reasons to retire 744 was the availability of parts and maintenance capability and capacity around the globe.
If UA order 788s with Trent 1000-Ten, will there be spare parts and maintenance expertise at destinations if repairs are needed?
Use the same logic for 777X, so few airlines are planning to operate the 777X, will there be spare parts and maintenance capacity at places UA fly to?
A350 is a very popular plane and have been and will be flown by many *A airlines. Spare parts and maintenance will not be an issue. I personally love flying the a350s. More roomy and quiet than 787s.
I understand OP's interest in the 777X, but there are a lot of things have to happen such as cancelling A350 order, order more 788 with an unproven engine type, and then introduce another new plane with another engine type, etc. Why would UA go to all that trouble to order 777X that may only serve a handful of markets.
One of the main reasons amongst a number of other reasons to retire 744 was the availability of parts and maintenance capability and capacity around the globe.
If UA order 788s with Trent 1000-Ten, will there be spare parts and maintenance expertise at destinations if repairs are needed?
Use the same logic for 777X, so few airlines are planning to operate the 777X, will there be spare parts and maintenance capacity at places UA fly to?
A350 is a very popular plane and have been and will be flown by many *A airlines. Spare parts and maintenance will not be an issue. I personally love flying the a350s. More roomy and quiet than 787s.
I understand OP's interest in the 777X, but there are a lot of things have to happen such as cancelling A350 order, order more 788 with an unproven engine type, and then introduce another new plane with another engine type, etc. Why would UA go to all that trouble to order 777X that may only serve a handful of markets.
Jul 19, 2021, 1:48 am
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 19
The jury is still out on that engine. UA is not going to commit to new engine type without proper performance and reliability track records.
One of the main reasons amongst a number of other reasons to retire 744 was the availability of parts and maintenance capability and capacity around the globe.
If UA order 788s with Trent 1000-Ten, will there be spare parts and maintenance expertise at destinations if repairs are needed?
Use the same logic for 777X, so few airlines are planning to operate the 777X, will there be spare parts and maintenance capacity at places UA fly to?
A350 is a very popular plane and have been and will be flown by many *A airlines. Spare parts and maintenance will not be an issue. I personally love flying the a350s. More roomy and quiet than 787s.
I understand OP's interest in the 777X, but there are a lot of things have to happen such as cancelling A350 order, order more 788 with an unproven engine type, and then introduce another new plane with another engine type, etc. Why would UA go to all that trouble to order 777X that may only serve a handful of markets.
One of the main reasons amongst a number of other reasons to retire 744 was the availability of parts and maintenance capability and capacity around the globe.
If UA order 788s with Trent 1000-Ten, will there be spare parts and maintenance expertise at destinations if repairs are needed?
Use the same logic for 777X, so few airlines are planning to operate the 777X, will there be spare parts and maintenance capacity at places UA fly to?
A350 is a very popular plane and have been and will be flown by many *A airlines. Spare parts and maintenance will not be an issue. I personally love flying the a350s. More roomy and quiet than 787s.
I understand OP's interest in the 777X, but there are a lot of things have to happen such as cancelling A350 order, order more 788 with an unproven engine type, and then introduce another new plane with another engine type, etc. Why would UA go to all that trouble to order 777X that may only serve a handful of markets.
Jul 19, 2021, 3:56 am
#36
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Like what I said many 777X orders (e.g. EY and CX) are being cancelled. What Boeing needs is a lifeline for the 777X program. It’s not just UA that should order the 779, QF, KE, CA, BR, AC and AI also should order the 779. By adding UA/QF/KE/CA/BR/AC/AI to the 777X customer list, there will be plenty of 777X space parts.
Jul 19, 2021, 7:53 am
#37
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Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 116
Like what I said many 777X orders (e.g. EY and CX) are being cancelled. What Boeing needs is a lifeline for the 777X program. It’s not just UA that should order the 779, QF, KE, CA, BR, AC and AI also should order the 779. By adding UA/QF/KE/CA/BR/AC/AI to the 777X customer list, there will be plenty of 777X space parts.
Also, no to the RR on the 787. I'm not sure why you are obsessed with that, but the GE is the proven winner on the 787. It would be asinine to introduce a new, inferior engine to the fleet. I'm not speaking to all RR engines, but specifically the GE vs RR on the 787. Picking GE for any follow up orders is the prudent and best choice.
Jul 19, 2021, 9:32 pm
#38
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Jul 20, 2021, 12:15 pm
#39
Join Date: May 2012
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UA just ordered the A321neo so the order for Airbus is dealt with. To deal with the RR contract without introducing a new type, order the RR 788. It is OK for UA to operate an existing type of aircraft with a new engine. NW/DL originally ordered A330s with P&W engines. However in 2013 DL ordered 10 additional A333s with GE engines.
Nope, its not as easy at it seems, in the long term it would be much cheaper to pay the contract termination penalty. The real bonkers move is when they increased their order to 45 A350s.
Jul 20, 2021, 1:45 pm
#40
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Like what I said many 777X orders (e.g. EY and CX) are being cancelled. What Boeing needs is a lifeline for the 777X program. It’s not just UA that should order the 779, QF, KE, CA, BR, AC and AI also should order the 779. By adding UA/QF/KE/CA/BR/AC/AI to the 777X customer list, there will be plenty of 777X space parts.
Let's be absolutely clear about WHY the 777X is rapidly proving to be a dud -- the type (esp the 779) offers zero upside over widebody a/c types currently in the marketplace. Boeing lists a seating capacity of just 414(!) seats (42J + 372Y) for the 779 -- this is due to the aircraft's design and door placements, and cannot be easily shifted upward. Realistically, with a sizable Premium Economy cabin AND some Economy Plus seating, the 779 will carry few/no more pax than today's 77Ws/A350s, and the 779 will carry a much higher price tag and a host of new tech headaches.
Oh, and the 779 has slightly LESS range than the prior generation 777-300ER!
One of the few things UA has gotten right in its fleet planning is staying far away from the 777X.
Jul 20, 2021, 1:49 pm
#41
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Jul 21, 2021, 8:33 am
#43
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Maybe there are particular missions where UA could use the 777X (e.g. similar to how NH uses their A380s for solely NRT-HNL service), but I am not sure UA sees the value (or there is value) to having a small subfleet of a plane that would serve purely high-density routes.
Jul 21, 2021, 11:50 am
#44
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Jul 21, 2021, 12:04 pm
#45
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